Amen. It has been incredibly frustrating. Just when I thought I understood, it changed...more than once. I have been working from the original question and the title of this thread. I'm not sure where it's at now, but I haven't strayed too far away from my original direction. It's all about why there are only eight jazzettes on that page. That's what I've been trying to clarify. The jazzettes are out there. Why didn't someone post pics on this page? Who the heck knows. But, ... major frustrations. I tried to answer the original question several times. That was met with one dodge and sway after another. Then I offered a demo on how easy it is to search the web, but that was met with criticism. I'm not searching for jazzettes! I'm just trying to help the guy. I figured that if he's honestly searching, he might want to work the web more efficiently. That was it. Freekin' pain in the neck, this is. That's why I kept leaving the thread. I got frustrated at the changes in direction. I would try to help and get slammed for my efforts. ****ed me off more than once. Nothing personal, but dang! What the heck is this thread really about? Is it to find all the jazzettes out there? Is it to answer why there are only eight jazzettes on the page? Is it to prove the rarity of the jazzette? Is it to gather pics for the forum? Is it to come up with some parameters as outlined by one person as to what qualifies as an original jazzette?

It's done all of those and more. Unfortunately, it kept changing without any notice and I found myself at a loss. Every time I would attempt to provide an answer for one, the next direction would pop up. Who wouldn't be frustrated?

Here's the original question and the title of the thread:

"Where have all the Jazzettes gone?" "Only EIGHT documented jazzette kits?"

wow! Well, I was under the impression that this forum was for any idea for a drum discussion that anyone wanted to try and have. If you don't like reading it, who's stopping you from reading something else? No one has forced anyone else to read a thread, right?

What I don't "get" is this attitude that people should direct a conversation in a thread if they think it's turning into something they deem as being something they don't want to read.

I love this forum and have been here from the very start.

Yes, Ludwig-dude, it's ALL about correctness and matching numbers to me. It's about "sentimental" reasons to you. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can tell. To each his own. It's certainly nothing to get emotional about. I am a stickler for correctness and matching numbers. That's me. I am very detail-oriented. You never know when that quality about my personality may end up being of assistance to you or someone else, here. It takes all kinds of gears to make the world go 'round!Party

There is no requirement to read, participate or contribute to this thread if you don't want to. sheesh!

Man-oh-MAN! What have I done? HAHAHA!

Yep....started out asking (rhetorically) about the eight Jazzettes listed on the VDG. I know there are more than 8 Jazzettes out there! jeez! I made the title that way to generate interest for people to open the thread and read.

I was hoping some people might consider adding their Jazzette to the page. However, IN ADDITION TO THAT, I felt that I had to define some parameters for the information I was looking to collect. In other words, "What IS a Jazzette" -by definition. That makes sense, right?

Okay...What is a Jazzette?

And this seems to ALWAYS be the point(s) of contention. No one can seem to ever decide just what a Jazzette is! Some people think they have a Jazzette if it has ANY 18" bass drum. I don't agree with that definition. So, then, people want to know what I define as a Jazzette. I define it as accurately as I can based on the information I have collected in studying the subject for a few years. I think I have a fairly good idea about what I'm talking about -if I do say so myself!

But, along the way, I realized that my definition even excluded my own drum set! DOH! Well....So be it!

The title of the thread was to try and get people who own (or know about) people who own a Jazzette kit so that they would contribute a photo or two.

Does this one forum define the number of Jazzettes in the world? OF COURSE NOT!

But, there IS the possibility that we, together, could come up with a collective of some real, fine examples of the Jazzette. Why do that, you ask? How about for reference? How about just because several people like to look at them? How about because they are rare? How about because nobody else has a Jazzette section? I don't know why! But what's wrong with the attempt to do something related to collecting information about vintage drums at a vintage drum website?? What harm can something like this possible do to anyone? THAT'S what I don't get.

mcjnic, Thank you for your 9 minutes.

Ludwig-dude, I hope you find your BP Jazzette someday.

Harm? Read the thread and tell me that all those words were from the heart and focused on the ultimate goal. I even attempted a bit of humor at the start of all this to try and calm the waters. Nojoy.

You did not have any idea where this was to go when you began it. That's extremely clear. It morphed into what it is late on the first page and on the second page when you took the time to clarify your vision to the Bum. I'm not reading into this. You stated your disbelief three or four times at the beginning of this thread. Those were not rhetorical statements.

Unfortunately, I got caught in the middle of your meanderings and wanderings. For that, I have learned. I don't have any anger towards you or wish you ill will. I'm just frustrated that you couldn't communicate your goals from the beginning. More than that, though ... I'm bugged at myself for hanging in there in a feeble attempt to help you.

Why would you thank me for my 9 minutes? Is that a personal slam? You didn't get anything that I offered. I honestly attempted to assist you and you never saw it. I still don't believe you can see it.

So, good luck with your quest. I sincerely hope we get some cool pics to look at. I am like most, I love to look at kits. I will be one of the benefactors of this work.

What's kind of odd to me is the double standards some people have about being detail oriented in their definitions. There are plenty of examples of rare snare drums where every little washer and claw hook are scrutinized for accuracy. The more complete the details are, the more value the drum garners.

but, try telling someone that their Jazzette doesn't fall under the proper definition and circuits start to blow! And the real funny part is that, some of these people have never even seen a Jazzette in real life -and yet, THEY will jump in to argue points as if they are experts on the subject!

Here we have mcjnic spending his 9 minutes looking literally all over the world for anything that registers "Jazzette" in a search -as if to suggest that there are Jazzttes around every corner, under every rock -IF you know how to look! And yet, he basically doesn't know what a Jazzette kit is! Even though way earlier in the thread, I specified that I wasn't looking for just any kits with 18" bass drums, he searches and comes up with examples of 18 X 14 bass drums, bass drums with double tom mounts, rewrapped kits, etc. FEW of them meet the definition -if any.

Okay. That's fine. Thanks for trying, but please don't get angry at me when your efforts fail. Do you honestly think that I didn't know about the fabled Vistalite 'Jazzette' or any of those other so-called Jazzette kits? Granted, I have never searched Japanese websites for any kits. But now that some of those sites have been searched, I still don't see much difference in the numbers. certainly, there are a few unkown Jazzettes out there. Maybe MIKEY777's efforts will turn up a treasure trove of them. I hope so!

If I find a 1910 Ludwig snare drum with a NOB two-piece shell, would it be okay to define that as a Supra? How about if I find a 24/12/16 kit in Lavendar pearl? Isn't that a Ringo kit? How about a double bass drum Slingerland kit with all kinds of tom toms and photographs decoupaged on the shells? That's certainly a "Pictures of Lily" kit, isn't it?

See what I mean? There MUST be a clear definition of what we are looking for or else we are going to find all kinds of things that aren't legit.

Don't get angry when you step into a new game for the first time and don't score the game winning goals. I know it seems like it would be easy when you look at things from a spectator's perspective. But you soon find out that it's not so easy when you try and follow the criteria at hand.

If I am willing to relinquish one of my own kits as not fitting the definition, then what makes you think I am going to accept a rewrapped Willoughby kit or some cobbled together POJ as being legit? lol!

I appreciate the effort, guys! I really do! And with a little more focus, we could probably come up with a decent number of really good examples. We could make a really educational and historically helpful reference section.

If you're not into it, then that's totally cool. Thanks, anyway! If it doesn't come together, then I will move onto the next big thing -whatever that is!

DOH

Don't freekin' insult me again! You're crossing a line here.

You don't have a clue who I am or what I know about drums.

The searches were not my efforts to locate pristine jazzettes for you. They were a simple freekin' demonstration on the power of correct search strings and Linux tools. I've said that before. You missed the point again!

If you want to get personal...then get personal. That's your deal. It's not mine. I don't have any desire to turn this into a YouTube fiasco. I would have hoped for better.

There are hardly any Ludwig super classics and downbeat kits that have been documented on the forum. How about we start a page for those...after all those were the more desirable drum sets to have made by ludwig in the 60's.

That is why I feel it is pointless to care about jazzette sets. Every time I come across one for a fairly cheap price(Mind you I haven't found many for cheap maybe a total of 3) I always end up thinking am I buying this for rarity or for actual love of the sizes. Guess what!! I figured out I'd be buying it because it was rare. Not, because I love the sound of 18 inch bass drums. The thing is like a toy. And like I've said before I bet there are a whole bunch of these out there! Will we ever have an exact number....NO WAY!!!!...and how do we know your set is a legit set??? Someone could have found an 18 inch bass with a close serial number.....we will never know. And I believe it was you who said you needed pictures for proof of these rare sets. Well get me a picture of your set coming out of the factory together and I will believe you. Do you get what I'm saying here?

By the way I'm not mad at all I'm just typing my thoughts. I understand typing can easily be mis-inturperted. All I know is there are a whole bunch of these sets waiting to be found and they will continue to pop up for maybe a good 15-20 years. It's like saying there are no more 50's les pauls out there.....and only a couple 100 were made of those.

Whoa, I think this is getting a bit out of control! I have been reading this from the begining and have understood everything O-lugs has been saying, very simple, he's looking for how many true jazzette's there are. Hey man, if it doesn't interest you, don't read it, but don't get all bent over it.

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By the way O-Lugs that red sparkle set is flippin beautiful!!! And I'm sure it's factory I just wanted to explain a possibility of sets that might look "legit" that actually aren't legit. I really hope none of this stuff is coming out like I'm mad because I'm really not...I'm actually really interested in this topic. MAybe you should start a new thread with what exactly you want to find. Which is.....a factory matched(close serial numbers) jazzette kit.