Man, don't bow out after only 8 posts!

Let's talk about Rogers Swiv-O-Matic not being in demand anymore. Actually, I would bet that if a legitimate version of Swiv-O-Matic hardware were to be made today, it would be in demand.

Tama hardware is nice and sturdy -durable. But, as you mentioned, it is also very heavy. I own a whole bunch of modern Tama stands and an array of IC pedals and I am very happy with those...but, again, they are very heavy. Being heavier is not always a good thing.

I think Rogers Swiv-O-Matic was an extremely cool-looking design that boded well for the overall Rogers look and vibe. After all, Rogers didn't shut down because they were building things that weren't durable enough. In fact, they shut down because they couldn't afford to continue their high-quality designs and also be able to compete with the cheaper import competition. Eventually they had to sell out -as did all the great American drum companies...because they couldn't afford to stay in business as far as the way that business had been done previously.

But anyone who knows can tell you that those Rogers Swiv-O-Matic collets were excellent pieces of machined-goods and were of the highest-quality in the drum industry.

I would agree that Ebay is NOW full of broken and second-rate pieces of vintage gear.... but not because the quality is poor, rather because most of the really nice examples were sold years ago. The vintage drum collectible world is finite. Eventually, with all the collectors out there, the good stuff will be collected...and that's what's happened. What remains are the second-rate items -the broken items that nobody would have even believed could be sold! I've seen all that junk, too...and even the junk sells! Go figure! Occasionally, someone thins out their collection and a few nice clean examples show up -for top dollar. Everybody knows what's out there now and there are no really great deals left -except maybe once in a blue moon.

If durabilty is the only criteria for which to judge the worthiness of a drum component, then maybe the Swiv-O stuff would not beat the Tama Titan for "dropped out of a plane" style durability. If a Swiv-O-Matic collet were to be dropped out of a plane and broke, it wouldn't shock anybody. After all, that's not a good way to test drum hardware.

Is a Steinway a less durable piano if someone like Jerry Lee Lewis jumps up on the keyboard and starts stomping away?

Is a 1962 Fender Stratocaster more or less durable than a 2007 Japanese copy of a 1962 Strat? What if we were talking about "in the hands of Pete Townsend or Jimi Hendrix"?

It really is a matter of learning how to take care of things and then following through with taking care of them. Sometimes, the durabilty of an item is tested beyond its intended use -as in the aforementioned rock-star examples. Does Fender get the blame or does Hendrix? See what I mean? In other words, when the vintage items we are discussing were new, there wasn't yet a demand for them to have to hold up to the over-the-top theatrics of a Keith Moon. Drummers like that created a new need for heavier and more durable equipment so that the drums used in those applications would hold up better. There is no need for an acoustic jazz drummer to have Tama Titan stands. That would be overkill in that application.

So, durability of the Swiv-O stuff was just fine for most of the drummers who played upon them...as were Ludwigs...as were Slingerlands..as were Gretsch. But, when drums started to become "props" for theatrical drummers, the demands for a certain kind of durabilty arose. That's when things started to switch to meet the new demands of the day...Rogers with the MemriLoc stuff, Ludwig with their Modular stuff. It was bigger, stronger, more massive and possibly more durable...and yet...those particular items, as durable as they might have been, did not endure.

I wonder if Tama Titan stands and Iron Cobra pedals (as durable as they are) will hold the same kind of value over time that the Swiv-O-Matic stuff has held. Something tell sme they won't...but I could be wrong.Toilet

My 1977 Rogers Big R Memrilock in Silver Metallic. Ive had this since Nov. 79. The wrap has the issues inherant to this wrap, age checking. Eventually, I will have it recovered. Maybe Ice Blue WMP. My hardware, likewise, issues inherant to later Rogers Chrome Plating. I have some very minor pitting on the lugs, my center post and tom mounts are however, in excellent condition. I use DW 9000 series stands, and Tama IC pedals. But over all, the kit is in excellent shape. Because I cared for it. I kept it cased. I kept it clean. I kept the bottom heads on, even though the only decent pic i have of the set back then, shows the bottom hardware off (it was being cleaned). Point is, with the coming of ebay, in the last 10 years, ive touched a lot of vintage and old and used drum equipment.

Many people dont take care of their gear. They dont clean, they dont concern themselves with its upkeep, and they dont respect it in its use.

How many posts have we all seen in this forum and others by some dumb ass kid bragging about his latest cymbal crack, while agonizing over the amount its going to cost him to replace it, all the while damning the manufacturer for shoddy materials. How many vintage kits have you seen drilled for some stupid ass pearl pipe mount? That cheesy two pipe bd mount? And ive seen that cheesey mount on Masters sets. Ill never buy pearl just for that.

My two vintage 60s Rogers sets are within the scope of pristine. So is the XP8 set with 60s dressings. And so are the Memrilock Big R sets. And they will be taken care of as long as I have them.

Hey man don't run off you have been given many examples of how swivo stuff not only work but how it lasts and these examples have been backed up by pictures and facts..you have presented nothing but talk.... you say it is crap junk but you offer nothing more than words..i would love to hear from you how it is junk why does it not work.

Now no one can make any one else like anything that is a fact and i am not trying to convert you to swivo stuff but on the other hand i am not going to just sit here while you call good stuff junk,unless you can convince me with some FACTS!

My kit is not pristine but it is 100% complete and unaltered i have all the hardware pedals etc and everything works correctly and how it was intended to work how can i not be happy with it ..

I now use XYZ cymbal stands why? because they are tougher and work better than my Rogers stands and i want to preserve my old stands..the cymbal stands and foot pedals are all i replace i still use the hi hat and all drums and hardware other than cymbal stands and foot pedals... i use a Pearl Hi hat to bass drum mount why? cause it is better than the rogers one same for my cowbell holder BUT the swivo stuff is pure genius and in my book the best i have ever used...

Exactly. I wasnt trying to make you feel unwelcome or anything,

thats the last thing I would want to do, but you called swivo hardware

coat hangers and such and just had to argue. :-)

I think every Rogers player will readily admit the inherant problems with the hardware from any era. Be that B&B lugs, Swivo hardware from Cleveland, Dayton, or Fullerton, and most definitely with the drums themselves from any era. I purchased Swivo Cleveland era parts for my green set because of their durability, (and they look cool). I did not buy Fullerton era parts for the same reason, they werent as durable. The cleveland era parts I have, are in excellent or better shape, the price I paid for them was high, and I had to OUTBID other people who wanted them for the same reason.... They were in excellent shape. There are a score of drumwreckers on ebay, selling every part imaginable. Parts in nice shape, ......sell for big money.

When you have a dozen people (just to pick a number) who say a particular hardware group or part is crap, maybe they should be listened to. But when you have ten dozen other people who will say the same era hardware is not crap, maybe its time to consider the source of the complaint.

An item will only be durable as long as its used within the parameters for which it is entended.

it seems to me the source of this contention might be abuse. I dont think any drum manufacturer covers abuse in their warranties. Maybe I missed it somewhere.

Rogers historians: Were 22" bass drums made in Cleveland or Dayton? If so, are they hard to find? Anyone interested in trading a 22 for 20 silver sparkle Cleveland?

Gary

Dix Hills, NY

As this thread seems to have turned into a Rogers free-for-all I'm curious to know why when every other U.S. drum manufacturer was doing lacquered natural wood finishes that Rogers opted for laminate wraps imitating lacquered wood.

That one always stuck in my craw and seemed at odds with their high quality image.

Have a feeling it as a question without an answer but if anyone has some input would be nice to hear it.

DR

well that is a good question now as i remember the butcherblock type finishes were on the drums made later at fullerton like 1975 or later and who at that time in the US was making drums with a natural laquered finish?? i have no clue....i thought the laquered drums came after the 80's...but i amy be tottaly wrong ...good question...anyway i always hated the laquered finishes..pearl and sparkles were all i ever cared for ..now almost no company makes them . lol

Seventies lacquered finishes - Ludwig, Gretsch from memory, Camco, pretty sure Slingerland.

Am not a Rogers guy as such. The thought just occurred to me and, well, this is the only place I could imagine anyone would know. But I know what you mean about wraps - have a bit of an on again/off again thing about lacquered drums.

D

yeah the laquered finishes just seem lifeless to me under lights,a WMP or silver sparkle just seem to be alive when under lights...maybe i am wierd .. :)Excited