I don't know if we'll ever get to hear those 21's, so in the meantime you might want to hear these. They are a 17" pair both weighing in the 1700 gram range. I've tested these out in person. I tried the one that's slightly thinner with sticks, and I think that one would also be suitable for drumset use.

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/laphilharmonic/C%2017_DSC4256.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/laphilharmonic/C%2017_DSC4257.jpg[/img]

[color=blue]Link to soundfile:[/color]

17" Constantinople pair

Hello from Texas,

I just returned from a trip from California and brought back my grandfather's drum set from the twenties. Included was this k cymbal he used when he was a professional drummer who played around San Francisco, and the resort areas of Northern Ca. It is priceless to me but you guys really know your stuff and I would greatly appreciate any information or opinions on it. It has no cracks on the bell and it measures 16 5/8". I have not cleaned it yet except the stamp area. I will include some pictures. Thanks, Andy

Probably 1930's vintage. In fact it has exactly the same trademark as the cymbals shown above. That grommet is an indicator that it might possibly have been made to be a concert band cymbal. Is it heavy?

Yes, its heavier than a modern crash. My grandfather was mainly a brush player. On the bass drum frame he used it had a makeshift stand attachment. I don't know the weight in grams but your probably right about it being an orchestral cymbal.

Andy

Some history from the Constantinople era:

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/1940qus%20K%20zildjian.jpg[/img]

[color=purple3][font=Times New Roman][size=+1]The first price list issued in the U.S. when they were first introduced here in 1900:[/size][/font][/color]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/Picture%20044.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/0.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/websize/continental55-255-a.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/Kerope.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/websize/Copy%20_2_%20of%203.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/K%20Zild%20ad.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/websize/4.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/kerope_wife%20with%202%20son%20and%20daughters.jpg[/img]

I've actually played some of those cymbals. I studied with Michael Bookspan in the summer of 1987, and he would bring them to lessons occasionally. I couldn't tell you precisely what they were -- that was almost 25 years ago, and I was 16(!) -- but I remember being completely blown away by them. Although I was just a kid (and so what did I know about rare and priceless cymbals?), I remember thinking that I would probably never hear a finer pair. (Not to mention the guy playing them... Him, not me!!!) I remember hearing what his primary crash cymbals were insured for, and I remember thinking I could buy a pretty nice car for that -- once I got my license...

Beautiful instruments.

Rare,printed stuff from Bill,as always!

Thanks

Sorry I'm not the greatest at deciphering these stamps. What do I have here?

[IMG]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5284/5278105626_7a72525791_b.jpg[/IMG]

I am deeply appreciative, but must ask:

Latin???

What from the script suggests Latin? And why "sons" when at the time, they were K. Zildjian et Cie?

If the phrase was: K. Zildjian & Sons in Latin, it would wind up being practically the same thing with perhaps the K after the surname (Zildian) and some variation on Sonus rather than Sons. None of which the script looks like.

History is particularly treacherous round these parts and times. The constitution of the country was clear that Turkey was the official language of the country. But that does not seem to have affected the Zildjian's who published their

their trade literature in French.

Why throw Latin into the mix? Especially on the underside of a cymbal that is stamped on the top with the French corporate name (but no Latin and no sons).

thanks,

Patrick

Patrick