French culture was so highly esteemed that during this era even the German military's equivalent of the medal of honour, (WWI and earlier) called the Blue Max was given a French name. And this was used even though the Germans considered France to be their mortal enemy.
[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kzildjianhistorical/rm-hemmerle.jpg[/img]
[color=purple3][font=Times New Roman][size=+1]"Pour le Mérite"
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Thanks all,
I keep learning more, but my initial question remains unresolved.
The script under the bells is being identified as Latin alphabet, which is the Roman alphabet, which is the progenitor of the current alphabet and many local variants including Turkish. Fine. Never doubted that we were working with a variation on the western alphabet.
I am still puzzled as to what language the words are in, and it doesn't seem that we know.
Given that, based on the company's business documents, I vote for French language. (Which may put the alphabet in use closer to the Latin/Roman/European variant that is used in the other business documents.)
Thanks again, and I do post this with the best regards and no crankiness,
Patrick
Thanks all,I keep learning more, but my initial question remains unresolved.The script under the bells is being identified as Latin alphabet, which is the Roman alphabet, which is the progenitor of the current alphabet and many local variants including Turkish. Fine. Never doubted that we were working with a variation on the western alphabet.I am still puzzled as to what language the words are in, and it doesn't seem that we know. Given that, based on the company's business documents, I vote for French language. (Which may put the alphabet in use closer to the Latin/Roman/European variant that is used in the other business documents.)Thanks again, and I do post this with the best regards and no crankiness,Patrick
"This alphabet represents modern Turkish pronunciation with a high degree of accuracy and specificity."
And as I showed you earlier in this discussion:
The Turkish alphabet is a variant of the Latin alphabet [color=red]used for writing the Turkish language,[/color] consisting of 29 letters, a certain number of which (Ç, Ğ, I, İ, Ö, Ş, and Ü) have been adapted or modified for the phonetic requirements of the language.
Therefore without any doubt it was in Turkish.
I am sorry, that really doesn't suggest anything about the language of the text. Or the terms/text/words. Or why you suggested earlier the text is in Latin.It seems like a stretch, like replacing "Cie" with Sons "
I'll hold for some verifiable evidence I guess, thanks,
Patrick
I am sorry, that really doesn't suggest anything about the language of the text. Or the terms/text/words. Or why you suggested earlier the text is in Latin.It seems like a stretch, like replacing "Cie" with Sons "I'll hold for some verifiable evidence I guess, thanks,Patrick
I'm not real clear on what else you need. The signature under the bell is written in Turkish using Latin script. It says. "K. Zildjian & Sons. If anyone can explain to me what else there is needed to make this explanation more complete, I'll be happy to elaborate further. But as of now this I believe that this should be the answer your question.
Free? That's great. That first one is the most notable. It's an Istanbul K old stamp from the early 1950's. That should be worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $800, and will appreciate at about 15% per year as time goes on.The 14" A hats are from the late 1950's and are probably worth around $150 - $200.That Beverly is worth almost nothing because there's no real demand for them. They are basically 2nd tier Zyn's which were made by Italian artisans for Premier.But the real prize is the old K. And something else special about that one is the odd size. True 18" cymbals from them invariably measured around 17-5/8" to 17-3/4", or more rarely sometimes as small as 17-1/2". But yours being 18-1/2" makes it an oddball. Even though they never officially made 19" cymbals, they still made some anyway; so maybe that's what they were after when they made this one.
HELLO. haven't you ever heard of metric measurement. most of the world outside of the U.S. uses it. 17 5/8"-17 3/4" is right in the 450mm range and 18 1/2" is pretty close to 475mm. why would anyone think that people that are making the world's best cymbals can't measure?
about the signatures----i am a little confused. how come, some have two different signatures? i was always under the impression that one of the signatures was the hammerer and the other the lather.
HELLO. haven't you ever heard of metric measurement. most of the world outside of the U.S. uses it. 17 5/8"-17 3/4" is right in the 450mm range and 18 1/2" is pretty close to 475mm. why would anyone think that people that are making the world's best cymbals can't measure? about the signatures----i am a little confused. how come, some have two different signatures? i was always under the impression that one of the signatures was the hammerer and the other the lather.
First of all I don't even know how the subject of measurement even entered into this discussion. That's irrelavent. The thread in which you dug up that quote was not even concerned with cymbals of this period to begin with. Any questions concerning that topic should have been asked within the context of the thread where it was discussed initially.
Secondly you're attempting to compare how today's cymbals are "signed" to the way that cymbals of the Constantinople era were. I'm not going drawn into that discussion, because that's not what we're talking about here. There is no connection between the two.
I'll be happy to discuss anything that relates to the subject at hand, and that's all.
clearly it was related to what is in your quote and an assumption that the Turks were aiming at a certain size in inches. they weren't----they were working in metric. if the point isn't relative to the discussion, then why did you bring it up in the first place. the international standard of metric measurement is in France. the Turks were very comfortable with the French language and French culture. they really did not like the English. there was a long standing military history between the two. the Turks were comfortable doing international business in French and working at home in whatever variant of Turkish they chose. presumably the signature under the bell was variable depending on who made it. we don't know what the standard was or if there was one. BUT the question remains, why do some cymbals have 2 (or in fact more signatures under the bell). the reason is , that more than one person signed under the bell. maybe they were, 19th century futurists and were channelling Klingon, maybe they just wanted to get their name in there, maybe one of the words says substandard (second), maybe they were both the names of the makers newly born twins, maybe it was a secret note to the chick who packed the cymbals for shipment but it does seem that there are a number of different signatures and styles of writing and there is a lack of uniformity so, the assertion that latin is the language of choice does seem to be a stretch. it would seem unlikely that any but the managerial staff of such a company would even know latin and it would seem unlikely that they would have the time to sit around inking the undersides of cymbals.
I'll be happy to answer any questions on this topic that anyone else might have.
But I will not respond to anything from the previous poster, since he obviously doesn't understand what I just said.
Bill, my friend here's one you may not of thought about?, Why does a dog lick himself??? Because he can!!!Toilet
