I thought it would be appropriate to include these very rare examples in this thread:
[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/constantinople/websize/IMG_6635.jpg[/img]
[color=purple3][font=Times New Roman][size=+1]21" Constantinople K's[/size][/font][/color]
[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/constantinople/websize/IMG_6644.jpg[/img]
Good Lord, that's a beautiful set of old biggies.
Wow.
If it is saying the same thing on each cymbal, then the script should be the same on all cymbals, right? You've owned or seen hundreds of K cymbals - do they all really have the same script in them?
In theory yes, they should be all the same. But in practice its not. That's because there were a few different people doing the signing of the bell, so there actually appear to come in several varieties.
But 0ne thing I can tell you that supports this idea is the fact that the old Avedis signatures come very close to matching some of the old K's signatures, as you would expect since they say nearly the same thing. The information that I got from Mehment was that usually whoever was in charge of the foundry at the time applied the signature. If that person was not avilable, then sometimes a surrogate would sign them.
Here's a buch of signature examples that will give you an idea of the variations:
http://imageevent.com/drumaholic/ebayii?n=0&z=2&c=3&x=1&m=15&w=0&p=0
Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to locate these cymbals, obtain a soundfile, and share it with us on the Forum.... This message will self-destruct in hmmmm.... an undetermined length of time. Good luck, Drumaholic!!!... It would be great to hear them, if only through a soundfile... thanks for the post!!
I wish I could locate these so everybody could hear them. What I recommend for anyone who's interested is watching a movie by Alfred Hitchcock called, "The Man Who Knew Too Much". The movie starts out with a a good close-up shot of a pair of 20" Constantinoples, and then a cymbal crash that demonstrates what a good pair of these really sounds like.
In the meantime I have this soundfile demonstration of an orphaned 18" which doesn't do justice to what a pair of these play as orchestral cymbals sounds like:
[color=blue]SOUND FILE LINK:[/color]
[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/kerope/18%20Const%20type%20III.JPG[/img]
These 21" cymbals belong to the Pittsburgh Symphony and have been in the orchestra's possession longer than anyone can remember. I've gone back through most of the living percussionists that have played in the group and the cymbals pre-dated their arrival years.
I have the honor (and believe me it's an honor) of playing these plates often and have recently gotten a few sound files. I'll be posting them when I get a chance and I'm actually working on a project to compare sound files back to back with same-sized, similar-weight new cymbals so people can get an idea of how the new stuff sizes up.
For anyone who is an old K nerd like me, the Philadelphia Orchestra owns a pair of 22"K Constantinoples that are beautiful. I have never seen a pair larger of that same vintage. They are still played very often and sound like a million bucks.
These 21" cymbals belong to the Pittsburgh Symphony and have been in the orchestra's possession longer than anyone can remember. I've gone back through most of the living percussionists that have played in the group and the cymbals pre-dated their arrival years.I have the honor (and believe me it's an honor) of playing these plates often and have recently gotten a few sound files. I'll be posting them when I get a chance and I'm actually working on a project to compare sound files back to back with same-sized, similar-weight new cymbals so people can get an idea of how the new stuff sizes up.
Great, I'lll be looking forward to that!
For anyone who is an old K nerd like me, the Philadelphia Orchestra owns a pair of 22"K Constantinoples that are beautiful. I have never seen a pair larger of that same vintage. They are still played very often and sound like a million bucks.
I am aware of that pair of 22's that Philadelphia has. I'm sure they do sound like million bucks.
They say that "everything has it's price", but I wonder if that was offered to them, if they would be willing to part with those. I'll bet not.
At this point, it becomes less of an issue of sale value and more a matter of the tradition of the orchestra. With both Philly and Pittsburgh for example, those cymbals are part of the signature sound of the group.
If you buy a CD today (or an mp3) then you're hearing those actual cymbals. If you own an old Philly record with Ormandy or Stokowski conducting - those are the cymbals you hear. Same with Pittsburgh and Steinburg or Previn - those are the cymbals you're hearing and that's part of the sound of the group.
I can't imagine we'd ever sell ours simply because we couldn't come up with something that sounds like those exact plates.
At this point, it becomes less of an issue of sale value and more a matter of the tradition of the orchestra. With both Philly and Pittsburgh for example, those cymbals are part of the signature sound of the group. If you buy a CD today (or an mp3) then you're hearing those actual cymbals. If you own an old Philly record with Ormandy or Stokowski conducting - those are the cymbals you hear. Same with Pittsburgh and Steinburg or Previn - those are the cymbals you're hearing and that's part of the sound of the group.
I actually have a few recordings with Ormandy conducting Philadelphia, and at least one with Stokowski conducting. I'll have to dust them off and give them a spin.
I can't imagine we'd ever sell ours simply because we couldn't come up with something that sounds like those exact plates.
No substitute for the real thing? I couldn't agree with you more, but whatever you do don't go over to Cymbalholic and express that sentiment. Talk like that could get you banned. There's are some types over there who will argue that their Dream Bliss cymbals are every bit as good as an old K; whether its a Constantinople or an Istanbul.
bet ya dollars to donuts that those big bells are killer for latin rhythm's
and hard driving r and r! sure would look great in my drum room!
the new stuff will sound like garbage can covers when compared to
hand made art like this!
Letter designations on Constantinople K's
Certain letters that can be found on some old Constantinople K's. like these:
[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/elvinscymbals/Const%20pair%20letters.jpg[/img]
Military unit designations. HF R1A, and HF R3B may indicate something like: "Her Majesty's Fusiliers Regiment 1A, and 3B".
[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/elvinscymbals/websize/V.JPG[/img]
This "V" device has unknown etiology but only one has been seen once. It's not likely that it was stamped at the foundry but probably was added later.
[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/elvinscymbals/websize/VV.jpg[/img]
With an upside down "19" and "VV" device. Again not likely that it was stamped at the foundry and was probably added later.
[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/elvinscymbals/type3%20F.jpg[/img]
Trademark with an "F" device. Quite a few of these have been seen and all have the same size letter, letter font, and location relative to the trademark. Therefore it's most likely that these were stamped that way by the foundry. A few of the era types have been seen to have them.
This may indicate that these were sold directly from the foundry in Istanbul.
