Well, rumours are plentiful....I have read, that a rumour went that the first Zyns after the war (and some later) were made by italian POWs, that had happened to be artisans from Pistoia, cymbalsmiths....

But of course that rumour might have covered for the fact that Premier - like Ludwig and others - contracted cymbals from outside and didn't want to tell.

I don't know either - I was just very surprised, as I nver have heard the possibility of a UFIP connection.

The Super Zyns I have owned were good, thin Vintage-style cymbals.

The 5-Star Super Zyns even better, more modern, more Zildjian A-style zymbals.

Regards

Jon

That story about the POW's manufacturing those cymbals may be a rumor too. I heard that story from the same old English guys who advised me about what Super Zyns to buy. During my research I found a drummer blog in the U.K. where this issue was discussed in several threads. That doesn't guarantee that its true though. A rumor, or hearsay that widely diseminated still only amounts to hearsay doesn't it a fact. We just need to talk to some of those old Italians if any can be found. I'll ask one of my English drum colleauges at the drum show and maybe we can shed some light on this.

In the meantime, somebody in or around L.A. get a picture of Ringo's cymbals.

And get the trademarks, ducky...get the trademarks. And in case you're not close enough for that, bring a super powerfull telephoto and shoot down from somewhere above.

To my ears, there were more than one 18" that he used. I think the early years thru to Hard Day's Night, it sounded thinner and splashier than the one from Help on to the end.

Example to listen to is Long Tall Sally, Matchbox or any break he finished off with a crash for the earlier cymbal.

Example to listen to is Help, The Night Before or any break he finished off with a crash for the later cymbal.

Both are great sounding to me, anyone else agree there were two 18" crashes?

I've checked that by pitch comparison. I use the "Day in the Life Drum" track as my standard reference. On comparison the pitches match from early Beatles to late. I think his cymbal responded like a thin even though it wasn't because of its profile flatness. On most recordings it sounded pretty splashy for sure. On a Day in the Life, he response was different because of mic placement only I think, but it was still the same cymbal.

But Ringo did have another 18" with rivet holes in it back the earliest days when they were still only well known in the U.K.; ie. the era of:

"Please Please Me", and "Love Me Do". But by the time of the first American tour he already had gotten the 18" that we're talking about and he would continue to use it throughout his career with the Beatles and even for some years beyond that.

@ the grammy museum in LA they have a ringo display, with a meet n greet.

Ya might wanna check into that

Gentlemen,

Now this is a good conversation. Here are a bunch of cool photos I have been collecting off of Instagram. Amazing stuff on there all things beatles if you "follow" some of these accounts I am posting pictures from.

Ringo cymbal shots

-Looks like 14'' hats here. With a newer 20'' Zildjian that you can also see during the Pepper sessions, this is after- during All You Need Is Love. Check out that cigarette pack, love it!

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/C314CABB-C9D5-4AAB-9747-D05F78AB6FE9-23494-00000FB298FC9A4D_zps76139cb0.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/2C6246F1-B006-45BC-A19F-A80D6BD8EF09-23494-00000FB273CC5F41_zps5de251fd.jpg[/IMG]

- I am also a fan of trying to find out what sticks he used during all eras, especially before he got his 13a Ludwig endorsement sticks

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/A2EBFE37-6AA0-4443-9D59-F73493E0A060-23494-00000FB2760486AC_zpsb367f4ad.jpg[/IMG]

- Sticks and Zyn--- anyone an expert on U.K and early Ludwig drumsticks? Interesting tip here

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/684531EF-45A0-4AC2-BFBF-71225E5E2724-23494-00000FB2779468D3_zpsbee64b94.jpg[/IMG]

Barely visible- an early 18'' maybe Paiste

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/3089813F-F46B-4895-B7AB-FB4EED7C1796-23494-00000FB28078BB80_zps0c22de9a.jpg[/IMG]

Stick tip shot here--- and that "newer shinier" 20'' previously mentioned

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/671E12EF-3F23-4EE0-A6DA-1A11EADD37AC-23494-00000FB281A78FE0_zps385b6a25.jpg[/IMG]

the 18'' riveted that drumaholic previously mentioned. "But Ringo did have another 18" with rivet holes in it back the earliest days when they were still only well known in the U.K.; ie. the era of:

"Please Please Me", and "Love Me Do". But by the time of the first American tour he already had gotten the 18" that we're talking about and he would continue to use it throughout his career with the Beatles and even for some years beyond that." Right and wrong, I love your knowledge Drumaholic but I do not think Ringo really used this 18'' again on an official recording at least. I think he had three 18'' crash rides with the Beatles. This riveted one, a slightly heavier Zildjian used during the Ed Sullivan 1964 show, and then the magical awesome one you hear during Help! and then through the rest of the Beatles.

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/732F977D-D3A5-4B94-AE15-01554C11F1AC-23494-00000FB28999165B_zps3edb369a.jpg[/IMG]

Overhead shot of riveted 18''!!!! Must be a cheapy with that bell size, and only one cymbal!

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/9F338975-C20C-4F08-86A6-27BC864B3981-23494-00000FB28AEE597B_zps85c67a87.jpg[/IMG]

Early Studio shot, cool Coles mic.

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/041BD53C-11B8-4C91-9ED4-456AC058610B-23494-00000FB2912BAD51_zpsc59ccbe7.jpg[/IMG]

Sticks shot- cut off ends???

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/FDE7715E-4502-4AB3-8BDD-6BC171B13FB4-23494-00000FB29256E91E_zps66bb64a8.jpg[/IMG]

Who knows??

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/9176B230-8BD1-4AC6-AEB6-B2A58870889D-23494-00000FB295195959_zps41d5741a.jpg[/IMG]

The money shot- looks like his 14'' DC Show hats and Ed Sullivan Show 18''

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/9E54515B-2F10-4A15-8BEB-66D9E4AA9D94-23494-00000FB2AA3B120F_zpsfd4769b6.jpg[/IMG]

Let It Be Sessions

Is this a Zildjian guys??? He definitely used a 602 during these sessions, a 20'' I believe on the rooftop especially- as well as at the Hey Bulldog/ Lady Madonna video.

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/602001.jpg[/IMG]

These eerily look like some pre serial pat. pending 602 hats that I have. But could be THE 15'' hats he always used.

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/602002.jpg[/IMG]

Zyn and 18''. Always thought this 20'' with rivets was a normal Zyn, very cheap umbrella bow.

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/A_HARD_DAYS_NIGHT-5.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/20A2.jpg[/IMG]

Zildjian 18''- Could be THE 18''? You are right, flatter profile.

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/18A.jpg[/IMG]

Rooftop hats

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/Picture1-1.png[/IMG]

Lathing time guys. 20'' 602 no doubt. Looks like Premier sticks in both.

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/Ringo69copy.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/RingoHB68.jpg[/IMG]

Riveted Z 20''--- THE 18'' crash ride. 14'' hats again??

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/ringo03.jpg[/IMG]

Two 20''. Riveted 602???

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/Ringotoms.jpg[/IMG]

Sticks. Maybe one day I can find someone to make me a pair! Been searching for years.

[IMG]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Sgtpepper89L/RingoStick.jpg[/IMG]