+1 with BosLover. Others implied this also: The "vintage" line is not static. Today it's the mid eighties tomorrow it's the mid nineties and so on. BTW, there are probably some old timers who don't even recogniize the 60's and 70's as being vintage.
That's correct. I'm 72. Vintage cymbals and vintage drums for me is anything built before 1970. It's all relative.
Mark, I don’t disagree with your assertions. In the interest of brevity, I didn’t get into DW, Sonor or any “boutique” manufacturers in my post. I was mainly speaking about the Big 4 American drum makers.
There was a time (60’s -70’s) when you could rely on a drum being top-notch based ONLY on the nameplate. If it said Ludwig, Slingerland, Rogers or Gretsch, it was pro-level. You didn’t need to determine whether it was made in the U.S., or Mexico or China, or if it was made between this month and that month, or between this serial number or that serial number. The drums were made well.
Sure, now Ludwig does make excellent drums. They also make middling drums. They also make (and made) some cheapo drums. You have to know alot more about most drum lines these days to get good ones.
I owned some Mapex Pro M’s. Hated ‘em. I had some Mapex Saturns. Loved ‘em.
Don’t know if I’m making my point clearer or just rambling, so I’ll shut up now.
Josh
I'd agree that after a certain point everything became much more complicated because of all the different series of drums designed for different price points. At that point you suddenly had to know a lot more than just the "good" brand names.
I’m 67 snd I like some 70’s drums but for the most part rerings and white interiors are the best of the best!
in my opinion Vintage give implied for high quality , that is anyway a reason to have interest, if you take a poor pigsty table from the 40s' with all the tack shot crooked, you can not say it is vintage, it remains only a cheap poor table , in the same way for the drums, if the production that raise interest stops at the beginning of the 80s, it is not said that by going ahead the time we must be interested in a chipboard drum or other similar stuff ... the drums from that time however you want to defend have all the very light iron rims, the rubber or nylon gaskets, are mostly fanzine product and no more musical instruments, very difficult that they suck some interest, perhaps among other 50 years ... perhaps !
No car collector is going to salivate over a 2009 Honda Civic when it's sitting next to a 1963 Corvette. Sure, the Honda will technically out-perform the Chevy in almost every area....but so what?
Same thing is going to be true, to a collector, for vintage drums.
People often ask, "Why aren't there any good movies being made anymore?" Well, the answer isn't that there are no more good actors, writers, etc. The answer is that the movie-making process has completely changed. Movies are sold on an international basis now. Language barriers keep the movies sequestered to a much more limited market....unless you can make (and sell) movies that don't rely on language! Just make a plot that has a lot of chase scenes and explosions -because everyone can "get" that no matter what language they speak or what culture they are from....thus, more money can be raked in. There is no demand for "good stories" on an international basis.
Manufacturing started to see that it wasn't individuality or uniqueness of products that brought in the money....It was being able to make a lot of the exact same products. And when this became the general rule, then ALL manufacturing started doing it and everything kinda became the same -based on a price point.
I can't tell a new Toyota from a new Chevy anymore, but I can still tell a Ludwig from a Rogers!
Furthermore, many collectors (collectors in general) are interested in the attachment of historically-significance to objects. For examples: The same kind of drums that Ringo played are important because they represent an image of something big that happened for the first time in history. The same kind of amber Vistalites that Bonham played are significant because sitting behind a kit like that, for a Zeppein fan, puts you into that fantasy "driver's seat". What kind of drums were being played at Woodstock or during the Summer of Love? Things that adhere themselves to something historically-significant can make them be of a certain 'vintage'.
There's nothing in the modern world that has this same kind of intrinsic vibe. It can't be copied, either. Woodstock? Yes. Woodstock2? No!
No car collector is going to salivate over a 2009 Honda Civic when it's sitting next to a 1963 Corvette. Sure, the Honda will technically out-perform the Chevy in almost every area....but so what? Same thing is going to be true, to a collector, for vintage drums. People often ask, "Why aren't there any good movies being made anymore?" Well, the answer isn't that there are no more good actors, writers, etc. The answer is that the movie-making process has completely changed. Movies are sold on an international basis now. Language barriers keep the movies sequestered to a much more limited market....unless you can make (and sell) movies that don't rely on language! Just make a plot that has a lot of chase scenes and explosions -because everyone can "get" that no matter what language they speak or what culture they are from....thus, more money can be raked in. There is no demand for "good stories" on an international basis.Manufacturing started to see that it wasn't individuality or uniqueness of products that brought in the money....It was being able to make a lot of the exact same products. And when this became the general rule, then ALL manufacturing started doing it and everything kinda became the same -based on a price point. I can't tell a new Toyota from a new Chevy anymore, but I can still tell a Ludwig from a Rogers!
You are comparing apples to oranges. The real question should be whether a 2019 Corvette will be a desirable classic vintage vehicle 55 years from now like the 1963 is now.. We can't possibly know what will be desirable or considered vintage 25 or 50 years from now. Tastes change. Even on this site I sometimes see people acquiring what they consider desirable vintage gear which to my eyes are a couple of steps above junk. Maybe in 50 years everybody will be playing electronic drums, and acoustic drums from the1960s will just become quaint museum pieces.
No, I am comparing the "evolved-from-former designs" to "former designs". So, it's not apples and oranges; It's heirloom apples and GMO apples!
In terms of what designates vintage drums, one needs to determine when those designs changed, in a significant way. In other words, when did apple growers start genetically-modifying the seed? Well, IF there is a specific date for that, then that date is the 'line' for determining heirloom from GMO. In terms of drums, you ask yourself the same question: "When did American drum manufacturing significantly change the way drums were made? If there is a specific date or timeline when that happened, then that is the 'line' for determining vintage from modern.
Free trade and OSHA...'nuff said! :)
A computer can be programmed to analyze the construction of a Stradivarius violin and then go about cutting and shaping all the pieces accordingly. The end result is the ability to make a glut of "Stradivarius" violins so that everyone can enjoy what once was reserved for only the most esteemed and/or wealthiest individuals.
When every home has a Stradivarius sitting in the corner, because manufacturing made it possible, do you think it will lessen the historical-significance of an original, handmade version? I don't....I think the way to draw the line between vintage and modern drums is just as easy.
I get what you're saying....In fifty years, what's modern, now, will be vintage. That is, mathematically, a fact that isn't debatable.
But I also think that the entire world of collecting is based off of things that delineate when something became no longer made -or no longer made the same way. I see a significant change in drum manufacturing happening all through the 70's and the dust settling from it in the 80's. That's my answer and I'm sticking with it! ;)
