It almost seems like the term "vintage," as it relates specifically to instruments, has become a little synonymous with desirability. Some folks would consider a Radio King to be vintage, but not a Zim Gar.
"Old" versus "vintage" - seemingly two separate categories in some circles.
I will agree that the Beatlemania and competition from the Asian manufacturers helped throw the craftsmanship out the window for most US companies. It seems like 1965 is the worst year for Ludwig in the 60's, ( in my experience.)
In your experience with 1965 Ludwig drums what problems have you had? My 1965 Super Classic set sounds and plays great!
I have to disagree there. As a drummer who started playing as a young teen in 1959, in my experience drums, for the most part, and just about every piece of hardware, are manufactured better today than they ever were in the "old" days. While one might prefer the sound and visual aspects of some vintage drum sets over newer models (I know I do), newer drums are far more precisely manufactured and there is simply no comparison with modern hardware. My son's 2006 Ludwig 12/14/18 bop kit with a birdseye maple finish is stunningly beautiful to behold, constructed better and more precisely than my 1962 superclassic WMP set, sounds absolutely terrific, and is easy to tune with a very wide tuning range.
Well you are absolutely correct...in terms of precision-made aspects between old and new drums. And modern hardware designs are much better as well. But that still doesn't change the fact that American drum manufacturing stopped making drums the way they had been making them...at ~around the 70's. OSHA, for one thing, started kicking asses...and a whole bunch of other reasons, too....
Examples: Rogers Swiv-O-Matic hardware wasn't better than the modern hardware of today...but it was waaaay cooler! Older K Zildjian cymbals weren't precise or consistent at all, but...they were handmade and much more primitive...which is a big point of attraction to them -the absence of precision and consistency!
And, what's even more important to remember is that what "vintage" is, now, is what modern was, then. Modern drums would not be what they are, now, without evolving from what came before. Same thing can be said about cars....Sure they are safer, more efficient, better handing, faster than what they used to be....BUT you can't work on them, yourself....They all kinda start to look the same after awhile...and so on.
But the question was/is in regards to how to delineate a timeframe between modern and vintage. I say that, by the time the 70's ended, so did "The way they used to make 'em".
Well you are absolutely correct...in terms of precision-made aspects between old and new drums. And modern hardware designs are much better as well. But that still doesn't change the fact that American drum manufacturing stopped making drums the way they had been making them...at ~around the 70's. OSHA, for one thing, started kicking asses...and a whole bunch of other reasons, too....Examples: Rogers Swiv-O-Matic hardware wasn't better than the modern hardware of today...but it was waaaay cooler! Older K Zildjian cymbals weren't precise or consistent at all, but...they were handmade and much more primitive...which is a big point of attraction to them -the absence of precision and consistency! And, what's even more important to remember is that what "vintage" is, now, is what modern was, then. Modern drums would not be what they are, now, without evolving from what came before. Same thing can be said about cars....Sure they are safer, more efficient, better handing, faster than what they used to be....BUT you can't work on them, yourself....They all kinda start to look the same after awhile...and so on.But the question was/is in regards to how to delineate a timeframe between modern and vintage. I say that, by the time the 70's ended, so did "The way they used to make 'em".
And so it ends most excellent..
1984 when the Rocker series came out....:)
Sellers on ebay call anything old “Vintage.” My opinion of vintage necessarily includes high demand, then (when they were first manufactured) and now.
Think about it: most of the drums we now covet as vintage drums were top of the line when they were made. Individual preferences aside, if you owned Ludwig, Rogers, Slingerland or Gretsch, top players in the U.S. and around the world played them, too. Most of us believe that the ‘80’s saw a drastic downturn in quality, and a demise of some premiere drum lines. To me, that’s the cut-off.
Just my two cents.
Josh
Sellers on ebay call anything old “Vintage.” My opinion of vintage necessarily includes high demand, then (when they were first manufactured) and now.Think about it: most of the drums we now covet as vintage drums were top of the line when they were made. Individual preferences aside, if you owned Ludwig, Rogers, Slingerland or Gretsch, top players in the U.S. and around the world played them, too. Most of us believe that the ‘80’s saw a drastic downturn in quality, and a demise of some premiere drum lines. To me, that’s the cut-off. Just my two cents.Josh
The '80s saw a drastic downturn in quality? Do you really believe that modern DW Collectors series drums are inferior products? Or that Ludwig Black Beauties manufactured after your arbitrary cut off were inferior to one's made in the '60s and '70s. Do you also believe that all the products made before that cut off were of the highest quality?
To a certain degree, I think most of these arbitrary cut-off dates that people are expressing in this thread are in part based on an emotional attachment to those drums from an earlier period including intangible things that go beyond just the actual construction and sound of the drums. This is not to disparage the collection of vintage drums. I love using mine and I love the sounds they make which invoke those of an earlier time. But I also do not believe that the top quality drums made today are inferior products, just different. And the young players of today and tomorrow, will one day salivate over such things as the acquisition of say a 50 year old Dunnett snare drum made in 2002, before they were born.
That’s so not true , the construction changed the quality of American drums after the hey day, it was the end of a era , and it just got worse as the imports enters the country and forced the big four to go overseas or close and to try new ways to make drums cheaper , to attract customers, competition from imports was the downfall of oldschool drums ...
+1 with BosLover. Others implied this also: The "vintage" line is not static. Today it's the mid eighties tomorrow it's the mid nineties and so on. BTW, there are probably some old timers who don't even recogniize the 60's and 70's as being vintage.
