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Vintage ends

Posts: 111 Threads: 17
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From leedybdp

Once again, I'll state that "vintage" is a rather meaningless term to categorize drums as to their collectibility or desirability. I prefer to delineate the categories of drums or many other things by the era in which they were produced. Vintage is intended to identify the year in which a particular bottle of WINE was made. That's wine--not drums or cars or pottery. The "vint" refers to vines of grapes. There are Civil War era drums, Victorian era drums, Jazz era drums, Pre-World War Two era drums, Big Band era 1930's--1940's drums, mid 20th century drums from the 1950's-1960's, and the eras following these. In my opinion, if you insist on using the word vintage, that word should be immediately followed by a specific year such as vintage 1953 Slingerland or vintage 1989 Tama.

"vintage" enters as a common linguistic term to identify still usable objects of an era immediately prior to ours, of some interest in design, performance or for reasons of pure nostalgia, an object that does not interest anyone remains trash even if old, I'll have to become "ancient" to end up in some museum

However the forum is called vdf and we do not talk about wine!

Posted on 5 years ago
#51
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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From BosLover

I didn't mean to imply that it was your subjectivity alone any more than its my subjectivity alone with regard to my feelings about modern A. Zildjian cymbals. My overall point is that arbitrary cut-off dates defining what are and what are not vintage drums are, for the most part, subjective without a defineable metric.

But it's not arbitrary. The delineators aren't selected from drawing timelines from a hat. They are determined by what happened, historically. When free trade came about, it changed drum manufacturing from being something that had formerly been friendly competition among the Big Four American companies, into cutthroat competition with the rest of the world. You can bet there were a LOT of nervous boardroom meetings at Ludwig and Slingerland when American drummers started buying Yamaha drums, instead! That's not arbitrary. It's historically-traceable and, thus, very relevant to determining a timeline that drum collectors observe now. The metric will obviously have to be adjusted and added-to as time goes on and collector's criteria change. Timeframes are essential in determining collectibility and timeframes are also tied to historical events -like a drastic change in manufacturing practices due to an influx of foreign competition.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 5 years ago
#52
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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Exactly, steff! This forum is called the "Vintage Drum Forum". I think we already kinda know what we mean when we use the term. And, if some of us use the term in a slightly different way, then so be it! I still know what everyone means and I reckon so do most of us who come here, specifically, for the reason that this forum focuses on what is generally-accepted as older drums that aren't made anymore. But, instead of calling it the "Older Drums That Aren't Made Anymore Forum", we just settle for "Vintage Drum Forum".

It's like, come on....we already know all this stuff, right?

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 5 years ago
#53
Posts: 111 Threads: 17
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However even the barrels to store wine are very similar to our drum, it is a moment to be wrong!

Posted on 5 years ago
#54
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From O-Lugs

But it's not arbitrary. The delineators aren't selected from drawing timelines from a hat. They are determined by what happened, historically. When free trade came about, it changed drum manufacturing from being something that had formerly been friendly competition among the Big Four American companies, into cutthroat competition with the rest of the world. You can bet there were a LOT of nervous boardroom meetings at Ludwig and Slingerland when American drummers started buying Yamaha drums, instead! That's not arbitrary. It's historically-traceable and, thus, very relevant to determining a timeline that drum collectors observe now. The metric will obviously have to be adjusted and added-to as time goes on and collector's criteria change. Timeframes are essential in determining collectibility and timeframes are also tied to historical events -like a drastic change in manufacturing practices due to an influx of foreign competition.

Just because that earlier dynamic may have changed in no way means that drums created at a later date lose the right to be called vintage one day. Vintage is a subjective term. Based on age, quality, availability and desirability anything can be defined as vintage if there is a large enough audience which subjectively believes it to be so. Drummers 50 years from now will make up their own minds as to what vintage is, and it may be based on different criteria than you are suggesting. .

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 5 years ago
#55
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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There will most definitely be more vintage drums as time progresses. As of now, the application of the term is in reference to older drums that aren't made anymore under former manufacturing methods. That's probably not the exact proper definition, either....but it's one that most people who collect drums, accept. There are some gray areas, but in general, most people who use the term "vintage" when it comes to drums, know what is being talked about.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 5 years ago
#56
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From O-Lugs

There will most definitely be more vintage drums as time progresses. As of now, the application of the term is in reference to older drums that aren't made anymore under former manufacturing methods. That's probably not the exact proper definition, either....but it's one that most people who collect drums, accept. There are some gray areas, but in general, most people who use the term "vintage" when it comes to drums, know what is being talked about.

Yes I agree with regards to now, but that may likely change at some future date 25 years or more from now with a significantly different audience than today. They may remember fondly the drums of their youth from the early 2000's, and the kits used by their favorite drummers or bands .

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 5 years ago
#57
Posts: 111 Threads: 17
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subdividing the eras by type of drums we will have the following scheme

- the ancient drums that from artistic representations we know exist at least from 1200 to 1900, which are wood tied with ropes and guts, I have not done any research but probably these drums have remained unaltered since b.C. times, at some point the snare wires has been inserted, but I do not know in what period, we are talking about "Ancient" museum objects

- then there are the first drums that replaced the strings with the metal hardware, we are talking about the first 20 years of 1900, are the drums defined "Old"

- finally we find the first double-tension drums, which compared to our era are definable "Vintage" because they precede it, and goes from about 1920 to 1970, are characterized by traditional thin-layer shells, and heavy hardware in noble metal (brass)

- lastly we find the drums of our era (1980-today), which for this reason are not yet definable "vintage", are characterized by the need to play along with electric amplification, the volume is most important of everything and developed on plastic skins, until today they can not yet be called "vintage" because they are completely current

this is just my quick analysis to make a minimum point of the speech

Posted on 5 years ago
#58
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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From BosLover

Yes I agree with regards to now, but that may likely change at some future date 25 years or more from now with a significantly different audience than today. They may remember fondly the drums of their youth from the early 2000's, and the kits used by their favorite drummers or bands .

Yep, could be. And, by then, what is called "vintage", now, will become "antique".

AntiqueDrumForum....anyone?:)

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 5 years ago
#59
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Oh this is easy, it’s 1979. Storm Trooper

Posted on 5 years ago
#60
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