Yeah, I always go back to Paiste. Even though they are formulated for louder music, I still can get a relative sound to what the older stuff was like.

I hope that Paiste will eventually re-release the Sound Creation series.

Never tried Bosphorous cymbals; never even seen one in person.

Honestly if you are looking for a China that isn't super musical, something just in your face and the quickly gone. Its really hard to beat a Wuhan I have tried a few Zildjian ones and they don't have the same flavor.

Not to mention they are cheap as you said. I got mine in a pack with a splash cymbal that too sounds good. I want to say it was under 75 for both cymbals

Paiste's design philosophy differs from Zildjian's and Sabian's. If I needed to replace my 20" 2002 China Type or 22" 2002 Medium, I could do it by mail and know that I would get something very close. On the other hand, a grown man would cry if something ever happened to my 1975 New Beats or the 2005 18" HHX Chinese prototype: Short of going to the factory, I could never replace those.

That's not to say that Paiste doesn't have some clunkers. I was watching a video the other night of last year's ELP reunion and Carl's main ride had a most annoying wash. He also had an Alpha mounted, but I can't remember if that was the offender.

There have only been a few, but every Bosphorus I've ever played has been exquisite. I was killing some time at a Guitar Center yesterday and gave a set of 14" Masters Series hats a serious workout. Just totally crisp and articulate but with a volume reserve and a beautiful sizzle half open, plus a very soft feel as opposed to the stiffness that other new cymbals exhibit. Good thing my other cymbals were at home or I might have spent $401 that I shouldn't have.

Back to the thread (somewhat):

My favorite recorded Chinas are Gary Mallaber's on Steve Miller's "Keep on Rockin' Me" and "Take the Money and Run" and the cracked cymbal that Bill Bruford used on "One More Red Nightmare" by King Crimson.

Both of those say what they have to say quickly and then get out, which is what I want from any China that I would use.

Paiste has a few clunkers. I would not include hardly ANY Alphas in that, especially for the $$$. I didn't like my JJ Rock China; but it had a good china sound, just not MY ideal China Sound...

Yes, when I said earlier that you should keep ANY Zilly you like, I MEAN it!!! The possibility of truly replicating it is damned near IMPOSSIBLE. I love and loathe the black magic that's in Zillys...

So far, no china except my Shade cymbal does that...

I asked this question a while back on the forum and the general consensus was that it was a Paiste Sound Creation dark china. Probably the best sounding china I ever heard......now if they all sounded like that I'd be a china guy through and through....I'm not particularly fond of the 20" Wuhan I have, but it does the job in certain applications and it was cheap.

To me, a china is a frisbee, or clay pigeon,...and sometimes a weather vein, buy you`ll never see one with my kit !!

They should`ve never been invented !!

try a sabian clocktagon 16 in. its should be what your looking for

It's a sound that seems to be necessary, for me anyways...

But it's hard to get along with!!!