One other thing, I think we have to always distinguish the difference between the Conn Co. ownership of Ludwig era, and the original Ludwig & Ludwig. Then after Ludwig sold to Conn, the re-emergance of the Ludwig & Ludwig Co. Maybe not so much a re-emergance, but more of a re-emphasis.
It's very possible that when folks are describing these older drums that they confuse the era.
Thanks a lot for your imput everybody!
Atomic - Mine is an Elkhart, am I correct in assuming that yours is a Chicago era?
Yeah. Mine has the oval logo on the hoop that says "Ludwig and Ludwig, Chicago." I think it is really cool that this could be as early as 1918. I also have a Leedy NOB multi-model that is from the same era.
Does your throw have a patent # on it? If so you could do a patent search for a date.
Does your throw have a patent # on it? If so you could do a patent search for a date.
No #. Just Pat. Pend. on the throw arm.
Does your throw have a patent # on it? If so you could do a patent search for a date.
On the lever of the strainer, mine has what appears to be an abbreviated “Patent Applied For” that reads “PAT APPD FOR”. This is a probably a late 20s Pioneer Model. It says "Ludwig Pioneer Model" in the oval on the hoop.
I feel this strainer model, and the variations of markings on it, will be important to develop the timeline on these.
Just to muddy the water here a little, I have a 6 lug 6.5x14 with heavy 2 piece shell with the back soldered flanges. The logo is the oval on the hoop. Hoops are straight steel. It is a great drum.
Just pulled the heads to check my Pioneer. It's also a 2 pc shell. Oval rim logo. I got this from John Aldridge about it...
"Hello,
I was just reading on the Ghostnote forum about your Pioneer. In case you
haven't gotten any more information, that model (in that configuration) was
produced from around 1919 all the way up until the late 1930s! The Stamp on the top hoop identifies it as being an early 20s drum. By the late 30s Ludwig was putting a round badge on the Pioneer model and had changed the configuration to 8 lugs. "
Just pulled the heads to check my Pioneer. It's also a 2 pc shell. Oval rim logo. I got this from John Aldridge about it... "Hello, I was just reading on the Ghostnote forum about your Pioneer. In case you haven't gotten any more information, that model (in that configuration) was produced from around 1919 all the way up until the late 1930s! The Stamp on the top hoop identifies it as being an early 20s drum. By the late 30s Ludwig was putting a round badge on the Pioneer model and had changed the configuration to 8 lugs. "
Crash - Thanks for you input! What exactly does it say on the hoop. I believe the 1918 - 1919 in the catalogs at Vintage Drum Guide dot com show that the logo on the hoop back then in the oval reads "Ludwig & Ludwig". Is that what yours has?
30's Model Universal. 6 lugger. Just posting as a reference for you guys.
GoneDrumming - I think Ludwig’s (Conn) 1930 drum of this style was a Pioneer and didn’t Ludwig & Ludwig (the family’s new resurrected company???) have the same style drum in the 1930’s and call it the Universal? It looks like Ludwig (Conn) wasn’t showing a Universal model in their catalog by 1930, so maybe L&L started using that name then. There seems to be a slight difference in the 12 hole part of the strainer (it’s bent down) in the L&L Universal in your photo.
[COLOR="Red"]Edit: GoneDrumming set me straight on this 1930s Ludwig situation in the post below![/COLOR]
Conn purchased Ludwig in '29. and held the Ludwig name until 1955. Conn moved the Ludwig plant from Chicago to Elkhart in 1931. Ludwig & Ludwig Pioneer and Ludwig & Ludwig Universal where in production at the same time, both under the Ludwig name with the parent company being Conn.
Did I answer the question...LOL :) Or pull a political answer.
Crash - Thanks for you input! What exactly does it say on the hoop. I believe the 1918 - 1919 in the catalogs at Vintage Drum Guide dot com show that the logo on the hoop back then in the oval reads "Ludwig & Ludwig". Is that what yours has?
Mine says 'Ludwig" in script,on top, "Pioneer" in larger block letters and "model" in smaller letters below it.......
