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1960's Ludwig 400 Out Of Round

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From KeiranKavanagh

Mine has the baseball bat muffler with a white felt on it, it has pitting, and crimped snare beds, it also has a serial number from 1964/65. I think its ludalloy.

...hmm...pitting is unusual on COB shells, and crimped beds on ludalloy shells, wow. I was, and this is again just from my feeble memory, under the impression the ludalloy shell Supra did not have snare beds and the brass ones did. Goes to show what I know. If you don't sand the rough pitting off, you will cut heads. It is a simple thing to do, just do it, and don't think about it. Pitting chrome is extremely sharp, as I am sure you aware from handling the drum. If it can cut you, think of what it does to thin plastic. All you will do is sand just the edge where the heads come into contact with the shell.

I am aware of the Animals. I am old...they were popular when I was a kid, in my young teens especially, I listened to them a lot, and even saw them perform once.

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Posted on 13 years ago
#31
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From jonnistix

...hmm...pitting is unusual on COB shells, and crimped beds on ludalloy shells, wow. I was, and this is again just from my feeble memory, under the impression the ludalloy shell Supra did not have snare beds and the brass ones did. Goes to show what I know. If you don't sand the rough pitting off, you will cut heads. It is a simple thing to do, just do it, and don't think about it. Pitting chrome is extremely sharp, as I am sure you aware from handling the drum. If it can cut you, think of what it does to thin plastic. All you will do is sand just the edge where the heads come into contact with the shell.I am aware of the Animals. I am old...they were popular when I was a kid, in my young teens especially, I listened to them a lot, and even saw them perform once.

Odd i know! i may post pics, so i know im not going mad.

I know this sounds stupid but putting the snare in a snare basket and tightening in opposite places to where its out of round wouldn't squeeze it back into roundness, bit like a jig? but easier to get hold of, still i dont think i will, too scared!

Posted on 13 years ago
#32
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The first acoustic-perfect ludalloy shells - (aluminum) had crimped snare beds in them, also to even make it more complicated they even had steel shelled supras in the beginning!!! so you could have aluminum, steel, or brass!! confused now?Cool Dude

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 13 years ago
#33
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I have looked at your photos and I don't see crimped snare beds on that drum.The badge and white felt muffler indicate your drum is from 65 or later,and because of the pitting,is a ludaloy shell,not brass.Brass shells do not pit.You may get some chrome loss because of improper platingwith brass,but not pitting.

FYI..there are some aluminum supra's out there with crimped snare beds.A drum having a crimped does not automaticly make it a brass shell,a process Ludwig stopped using around 63.There are threads on this forum addressing this issue.

I agree with JR about snare stands squeezing snare drums out of round.As a journeyman machineist,and drummer ,I can't see how you could apply that much pressure to the shell,even of you used a pipe wrench to tighten it.If you have ever exerienced an out of round drum come off a stand...that means the drum was out of round before it was mounted.Someone dropped or squeezed that drum somehow before hand.No other way it could happen.I think if you could somehow even muster the strenght to do so,the stand would fail first.

I have "rounded out"a few out of round shells by using two pipe clams and two pieces of 8" 2x2. Remove all the hardware and clamp at the drums largest diameter using one clamp on top,and one clamp below and apply pressure slowly to both clamps till the drum is in round.Use a tape measure or a drum head to check,and move the drum head around the shell to see if it binds at ant point.This may take several days,as you may have to over tighten the clamps to achieve roundness.GO SLOW.This will take time but you can make that drum round or closed to it than what you have now.

Steve B

Posted on 13 years ago
#34
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From tamadrm

I have looked at your photos and I don't see crimped snare beds on that drum.The badge and white felt muffler indicate your drum is from 65 or later,and because of the pitting,is a ludaloy shell,not brass.Brass shells do not pit.You may get some chrome loss because of improper platingwith brass,but not pitting.FYI..there are some aluminum supra's out there with crimped snare beds.A drum having a crimped does not automaticly make it a brass shell,a process Ludwig stopped using around 63.There are threads on this forum addressing this issue.I agree with JR about snare stands squeezing snare drums out of round.As a journeyman machineist,and drummer ,I can't see how you could apply that much pressure to the shell,even of you used a pipe wrench to tighten it.If you have ever exerienced an out of round drum come off a stand...that means the drum was out of round before it was mounted.Someone dropped or squeezed that drum somehow before hand.No other way it could happen.I think if you could somehow even muster the strenght to do so,the stand would fail first.I have "rounded out"a few out of round shells by using two pipe clams and two pieces of 8" 2x2. Remove all the hardware and clamp at the drums largest diameter using one clamp on top,and one clamp below and apply pressure slowly to both clamps till the drum is in round.Use a tape measure or a drum head to check,and move the drum head around the shell to see if it binds at ant point.This may take several days,as you may have to over tighten the clamps to achieve roundness.GO SLOW.This will take time but you can make that drum round or closed to it than what you have now.Steve B

That was beautiful to read! no other words to describe it, thank you so much, and in even better news, i got in contact with the guy who sold me it the lead singer of the animals, and he being a geniune man said he thinks he has another 400 in storage and he'll look for it and we can swap, he was totally cool about it and i am delighted :)

his ebay account is vintageinvestments i do reccommend him, all his feedback is good and i can see why now! im sure he didn't know it was out of round, he isn't a drummer haha!

But yeah, if I do not end up swapping ill try putting it in round like that, still sounds beautiful! thank you x

Posted on 13 years ago
#35
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Also the serial number is 28xxx which is quite low from what i've seen, probably is a 1965 like you said! i hope i don't have a steel snare haha. The badge is quite wobbly and can be turned around upside and there are scratches from that on the drum, wondering if this is a sign of someone tampering with the badge? there is a bit of damage to the grommet inside, i can upload pics.

Posted on 13 years ago
#36
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Thanks for the comments,glad I could help.Please do upload the pics of the grommet from inside and outside.Loose badges are not uncommon,even if they were factory mounted.

Steel snares came along a lot later,so I'm pretty sure you have a genuine Supraphonic from that era,which would have only a Ludaloy(aluminum)shell.Take some more pics of the outside of the drum as well as the strainer,which would also serve to date your drum.

Steve B

Posted on 13 years ago
#37
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