It's no different than any other American company like GM or Ford.

The government was taken over by radicals posing and selling themselves as conservatives... combined with off-the-scale government corruption.

We have 134 military bases in foreign countries, we are the self appointed Police of the World, we meddle in everyone's business and expect that we can force our version of democracy on people who don't want it.

Last week they were deciding whether to put another 32 billion into more war. electricit

Meanwhile, my sister finally became a doctor (she's been to Haiti twice) and the same month that happened she lost her house 'cause she couldn't get a job. My brother is a surgeon (also went to Haiti) and quit his job because the conditions are so bad in health care.

I have roughly 1/200th the amount of good work I had 5 years ago. Like someone said, it's like someone turned off a faucet.

There's no mystery, the system is broken, in order to become president you have to make so many deals that when you get there all you have time to do is pay back favors. It would make no difference if McCain or Obama were president, either would just be repaying the same favors to the same people.

But the underlying problem is that the government was taken over by radicals posing as conservatives. That's my opinion.

Mastrosnare, Brother to a point your on something! the Drums that we so love where built by the greatest generation that's walk this earth!!! We love there cars,planes.boats,motorcycles,musical instruments Etc,, but after WW2, we there offspring got lazy,and the government changed our society from manufacturing to consume and service! and our entire manfacturing base has now suffered, we've had threads on the VDF about quality of cars, drum metal hardware etc, it really comes down to we got sold out as a nation,Why is it the most collectible brands just so happen to be American!!! So to answer the Gretsch Question, basically the market changed so dramatically for Gretsch's guitar and drum company, they had to succumb to the same pressures that all of our beloved drum companies fell to! when you where able to buy a top of the line tama,pearl, yamaha, kit back in the early 80's, for hundreds less than a comparable USA made top of the line kit for!!so blame goes both ways!

Hmmmm, just caused me to wonder, were any of the drum companies unionized?

If you look at cars in the 70's and 80's, every Toyota that was brought in got several thousands of dollars tax credit, and every car we shipped to Japan got the opposite - thousands added on in taxes. Totally unfair and our government let it happen. My call would be corruption money.

I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened with drums. I remember around 1976 or so when all the Tama drums appeared at the music store I shopped at. The stands were 1/3 the price of Ludwig and way better designed. The execution however, was drastically inferior, but that took years to surface. I bought a lot of those Tama stands new and they are all in a landfill now, I still have the Ludwigs I bought (used) before the Tama's and they all still work.

I hear ya brother,I have some ludwig atlas swivel feet stands, they are light but heavy enough to play like I like to play! and I have tons of 1920's and 1930's hardware that works perfectly and once again forum follows function, light,but sturdy! It's good to see The current Ludwig's Resurgence, if you come to the Monroe NC you will see, Drums really being manufactured and built and drum heads being made!, but you will also see. boxes stacked from floor to ceiling with metal parts from china! on my last tour there I asked then Plant manager Steve Cotton, how many drummers worked at the plant? his answer only himself, and he said now he doesn't really play much! but that was several years ago made 4 years ago, and now ludwig has a wide wood drum line, plastic, and stainless steel like they did back in their 70's heyday!

It is refreshing to know at least there are some wood shavings on the floor at that plant! I bought a new Ludwig cymbal stand a few years ago and later sold it and bought a used 1400 off of eBay. No comparison.

If there was something I'd like to see them do is to reissue some of their classic stuff. Fender does that. For starters I'd love to see them bring back the 1400 cymbal stand, and for what they sometimes go for on eBay you'd think a profit would be possible.

Same with Gretsch and the W&A type stands.

Q. what happened to B3, Willaim F. Ludwig lll? Is he with Ludwig? Does he own the company?

B3 Isn't in the company, Selmer owns Ludwig! ludwig is doing the reIssue kit wise but metal wise, NO! send your suggestions to ludwig,consumer pressure is the way!

Interesting - thanks!

What about Rogers http://www.rogersdrumsusa.com/

Real or not real? Are they imported drums with the Rogers name on them?

What about Slingerland? http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Divisions/Slingerland/

Any relation to the original company ?

Sonor? http://www.sonor.com/

Are they still extremely well made?

Santa? - if you tell me he's a skinny vegetarian now I quit. x-mas1

Rogers is nothing but an import line now. And they are currently owned by Yamaha. Other than the name and maybe some slight styling resemblance they have nothing in common with the old Rogers of the 70's and earlier.

Slingerland is still owned by Gibson, but they are pretty much all but dead again. Nothing new has come out of the slingerland plant in arkansas in about 6-7 years.

Sonor, as far as I know are still building quality drums and hardware in house....never owned them so I can't say for sure, but I hear they are well made drums and hardware.

Santa? well.....no he's not a vegetarian, at least not that I know of! LoLoLoLo