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Help With These Zildjians and Model Etc. Last viewed: 1 hour ago

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From bunnyman

It would take many, many years for it to completely destroy the metal. While I would never do that to a good instrument, I would do it to crummy ones. Saluda ages their cymbals to order, and I am certain that they are not destroyed afterwards.

Well if there is one thing I am sure on its that there is a certain combination of chemicals that allows you to oxidize quickly and efficiently without destroying the cymbal.

So then one may say that cleaning a old cymbal can be a bad thing because the "patina" is whats left of the oxidation process and when you clean it you are therefore removing all that weight that was once there thus changing the sound maybe??

Posted on 12 years ago
#81
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That seems to be the prevailing logic.

I always said that Paiste colorsound cymbals sounded like old, dirty cymbals, which is why I love their sound. People will flame me over this, but it's what my ear hears...

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 12 years ago
#82
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From Mr.Lud

Why isn't it stable? It is a identical process it just takes a short time. Okay here is a example.Take a bar of metal and put it in your closet and then put one outside in the rain. The one outside is clearly going to oxidize faster than the one in the closet. So what you are saying is because the one outside happens faster is less stable than the one that takes forever? This is simple chemistry.There is a specific chemical out there that does the same thing in just a day and you get a better finish. It is just how things work.

Are you basing these ideas on personal experience or are you just assuming all will be fine after finding some general info on the sublject?

I'm just giving you the benefit of my experience. Feel free to do what you want. Anything that develops a patina artificially is a corrosive. If you want to apply it to brass or a bronze statue that's one thing, but to use it on a B20 bronze cymbal and hope you won't do it any damage phyically or sonically is not a risk I would ever want to take on my prized cymbals. I can't imagine any situation where it would be appropriate.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 12 years ago
#83
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From BosLover

Are you basing these ideas on personal experience or are you just assuming all will be fine after finding some general info on the sublject? I'm just giving you the benefit of my experience. Feel free to do what you want. Anything that develops a patina artificially is a corrosive. If you want to apply it to brass or a bronze statue that's one thing, but to use it on a B20 bronze cymbal and hope you won't do it any damage phyically or sonically is not a risk I would ever want to take on my prized cymbals. I can't imagine any situation where it would be appropriate.

Its far from artificial though. It is natural the only difference is you are creating the specific things to make the reaction happen. Now that I showed you was indeed general knowledge. They said use salt and vinegar. I agree I would personally never use a good cymbal. It is insane before adequate testing to use a cymbal like mine. I would never do it. You shouldn't be so against it though because it is possible to make the oxidation happen very fast and NOT harm the cymbal and still get the same sound or better because it is even.

This isn't something to be closed minded on. I agree that we may not know 100% how right now but it is indeed possible.

Posted on 12 years ago
#84
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From Mr.Lud

Its far from artificial though. It is natural the only difference is you are creating the specific things to make the reaction happen. Now that I showed you was indeed general knowledge. They said use salt and vinegar. I agree I would personally never use a good cymbal. It is insane before adequate testing to use a cymbal like mine. I would never do it. You shouldn't be so against it though because it is possible to make the oxidation happen very fast and NOT harm the cymbal and still get the same sound or better because it is even. This isn't something to be closed minded on. I agree that we may not know 100% how right now but it is indeed possible.

Just like learning to re-fret a guitar, re-hammer a cymbal or what not, these things should be practiced on non-valued instruments.

I would wager cymbalholics.com has an opinion and possibly a procedure outlined for this very operation.

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 12 years ago
#85
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From bunnyman

Just like learning to re-fret a guitar, re-hammer a cymbal or what not, these things should be practiced on non-valued instruments. I would wager cymbalholics.com has an opinion and possibly a procedure outlined for this very operation.

I agree. Its not worth the risk.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 12 years ago
#86
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From bunnyman

Just like learning to re-fret a guitar, re-hammer a cymbal or what not, these things should be practiced on non-valued instruments. I would wager cymbalholics.com has an opinion and possibly a procedure outlined for this very operation.

Exactly, there is nothing wrong about doing this. It is naturally occurring and there is NOTHING artificial about doing this. The difference is it will be better than a natural one too.

Posted on 12 years ago
#87
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From Mr.Lud

Its far from artificial though. It is natural the only difference is you are creating the specific things to make the reaction happen. Now that I showed you was indeed general knowledge. They said use salt and vinegar. I agree I would personally never use a good cymbal. It is insane before adequate testing to use a cymbal like mine. I would never do it. You shouldn't be so against it though because it is possible to make the oxidation happen very fast and NOT harm the cymbal and still get the same sound or better because it is even. This isn't something to be closed minded on. I agree that we may not know 100% how right now but it is indeed possible.

First you agree that it is insane to do it without testing first. I'm not sure how you would do that without potentially ruining a cymbal, but I certainly agree with that. Then you tell me I shouldn't be against because it can make oxidation occur very fast. I refer you to your first statement about the insane part. Once we agree that there is ANY potential danger to a valuable musical instrument, your second argument is irrelevant.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 12 years ago
#88
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From BosLover

First you agree that it is insane to do it without testing first. I'm not sure how you would do that without potentially ruining a cymbal, but I certainly agree with that. Then you tell me I shouldn't be against because it can make oxidation occur very fast. I refer you to your first statement about the insane part. Once we agree that there is ANY potential danger to a valuable musical instrument, your second argument is irrelevant.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I agree we should do it fast. I disagree with the ruining of vintage cymbals. I however don't care if i should ruin cymbals in testing. There just metal. New ones even 10-20 year old ones i think can be used for testing. There is a combination that can be used, heck even a piece of b20 to test on is okay. See how the metal reacts and go from there.

Posted on 12 years ago
#89
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From BosLover

I agree. Its not worth the risk.

Will I ever do this to a valued instrument? No. But I may do it to B8 cheapos that I re-hammer (e.g. Zildjian zbt's or Sabian b8).

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 12 years ago
#90
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