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Help With These Zildjians and Model Etc.

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From bunnyman

Don't take this as an endorsement of "pre-aging" your cymbals, however:If I were to do that (on the link), I would use a spray bottle for a vinegar/saltwater mixture.Another way to accelerate oxidation is to polish the cymbal. Yes, I said it- once you polish a new cymbal, the metal now wants to get back to being dull and patina'd. Let me put it like this: I polished a few months old K and it wanted to revert to being tarnished MUCH quicker. I even used the Zildjian cymbal cleaner and it did that!!!

Well I looked into it a little more. For brass something like that will work. For b20 on the other hand it is a different combination. You can still do it but you need to deal with stuff that will deal with tin and copper. I want to g get a old cymbal now and try it out. Not mine though for sure, and experiment and try combination cause there is a way to create a patina really fast and not destroy the cymbal.

Posted on 12 years ago
#71
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From bunnyman

It's not that it's unstable, but it's intentionally destructive to a point. Some would argue that intentionally oxidising some metals protects it from further destruction (like on some unplated golfclub heads that were popular a few years back), but if you change your mind later, you would remove quite a bit of metal to restore it to a polished state and probably change the sound. I wouldn't do it to a new cymbal, for certain. It only takes a couple of years to get a patina'd look. If your sweat has enough acidity, it'll only take months, not years. Bronze really, really wants to revert to an unpolished state.I am doing this to a brass ddrum Shade cymbal, and main purposes are as follows:1) The purposely patina'd finish is calming down a couple of harsh frequencies (as I am hearing with each repeated application). Note that I also use my tanning bed to accelerate this process.2) I wanted something a little darker looking to match my smatterings of Colorsounds and Rudes.3) Yellow brass just doesn't look all that good, especially when the oxidation happens under the lacquer.4) It's going to happen ANYWAY, so I may as well start the process off right.5) This cymbal has ZERO resale value, as it's a $50 FX cymbal.6) I hated the Carmine Appice and ddrum logos.

It is VERY destructive to a large point. You are speeding the process up 5000x the normal and probably even more. If you don't leave it in for the exact right amount of time use the exact combination of chemicals like you said it will oxidize way to much and now you have trash. I really think this is a area that needs to be looked into because people like patina but it is uneven and just doesn't do the job right. I personally think it is altering the sound in such a way where it is beginning to be counter productive.

Posted on 12 years ago
#72
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From vibes

I see this thread turned in to a debate on cleaning cymbals. I have mixed emotions. I recently came across some really nice A Zildjians from a Craigs listing. Late 50's.The 19" ride is hand hammered, with the small hole. The 16" is very nice also. Plus some A Zildjian 14" Hi Hat"s.They completed the vintage cymbal set I was wanting for my jazz kits. Also found a really nice A Zildjian 18" med ride from someone else and bought a 18" med sizzle from a member here. The first pic are the 19" 16" 14" from the CL seller. I bought that whole lot of stuff from him. He got it in a estate sale and someone in the family was obviously a drummer. The cymbals sounded great as was. I did clean the 19" and 16". Left the hats alone as I am useing another cleaned set for performance. Now they sound close to the same. I can't tell a lot of difference except they shined up nice and sound nice and brilliant. Did not do to much to the others. That 19" is the finest ride I have ever used for jazz. The patina was really nice but I do like clean looking cymbals with pristine drums and hardware. I probably devalued the 19" and 16" but they look and sound great.It was a crime what I gave for all that stuff pictured.

Darn dude that looks good and if you think they sound better they more than likely do. I think cleaning is going to bring back that sound that the patina has killed over the years.

Posted on 12 years ago
#73
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From Mr.Lud

It is VERY destructive to a large point. You are speeding the process up 5000x the normal and probably even more. If you don't leave it in for the exact right amount of time use the exact combination of chemicals like you said it will oxidize way to much and now you have trash. I really think this is a area that needs to be looked into because people like patina but it is uneven and just doesn't do the job right. I personally think it is altering the sound in such a way where it is beginning to be counter productive.

This is largely an experiment. I have actually stopped even though it's not where I want it, yet. I have merely accelerated this destruction. It may be trash by the end. We'll see...

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 12 years ago
#74
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From bunnyman

This is largely an experiment. I have actually stopped even though it's not where I want it, yet. I have merely accelerated this destruction. It may be trash by the end. We'll see...

It may be although it may be exactly what you want too. I would pay attention to it and make sure you leave it in for certain times and then CLEAN it very very good to remove everything that would continue to oxidize it over time. You should have had before and after pics for us ha.

I also hope you are using a kinda trash cymbal on this.

Just watch it because your using a strong mixture

Posted on 12 years ago
#75
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From Mr.Lud

It may be although it may be exactly what you want too. I would pay attention to it and make sure you leave it in for certain times and then CLEAN it very very good to remove everything that would continue to oxidize it over time. You should have had before and after pics for us ha.I also hope you are using a kinda trash cymbal on this.Just watch it because your using a strong mixture

It's a $50 shade cymbal by ddrum. I actually had it encrusted with salt at one point!!! I use malt vinegar on it for some splashes of oxidated colours. I thoroughly rinse between cycles. I also put it in the tanning bed whilst wet with salt or malt vinegar (and it smells like a chip shoppe just like home!) to accelerate it further. It's amazing that it's going as slowly as it is.

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 12 years ago
#76
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From bunnyman

It's a $50 shade cymbal by ddrum. I actually had it encrusted with salt at one point!!! I use malt vinegar on it for some splashes of oxidated colours. I thoroughly rinse between cycles. I also put it in the tanning bed whilst wet with salt or malt vinegar (and it smells like a chip shoppe just like home!) to accelerate it further. It's amazing that it's going as slowly as it is.

Cool I have a few im gonna try it on. there newer ones but I think the effects will be the same. I am just really curious as to how many people know about this and say do it then sell the cymbal and people buy it cause they think its old.

Posted on 12 years ago
#77
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From Mr.Lud

Cool I have a few im gonna try it on. there newer ones but I think the effects will be the same. I am just really curious as to how many people know about this and say do it then sell the cymbal and people buy it cause they think its old.

Probably more than you know!

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 12 years ago
#78
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From bunnyman

Probably more than you know!

Yea I am now always going to be weary on buying old cymbals now. Cause its such a simple process to do and the buyer doesn't know. Oh I have a question. The oxidation is actually eating away the cymbal and changing the sound that way isn't it? Rust is a form of oxidation that eats the metal away so wouldn't this be doing the same?

Posted on 12 years ago
#79
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From Mr.Lud

Yea I am now always going to be weary on buying old cymbals now. Cause its such a simple process to do and the buyer doesn't know. Oh I have a question. The oxidation is actually eating away the cymbal and changing the sound that way isn't it? Rust is a form of oxidation that eats the metal away so wouldn't this be doing the same?

It would take many, many years for it to completely destroy the metal. While I would never do that to a good instrument, I would do it to crummy ones. Saluda ages their cymbals to order, and I am certain that they are not destroyed afterwards.

Yeah- I'm THAT guy!!!

Dead dogs like rusty fire hydrants!!!
Posted on 12 years ago
#80
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