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Help needed with identification

Posts: 1570 Threads: 66

From MIKEY777

Your set is a mid 1940's to mid 1950's Roxy set ..The T-rods and claws on bass drum,the tom mount and the wing nuts on the mounts and the finish all point to Roxy..Roxy drums are made in Germany..I can not recall the finish but years ago i have a bass drum in the same finish but is was black with silver lines....Mikey

not quite Mikey and George. Roxy was not exactly the export brand of Tromsa. It was a factory badge put on for an exporter of musical instruments, by the name of Rudolf Linnek. He had a complete line of musical instruments shipped primarily to North America, working out of a warehouse in Wandsbeck a suburb of Hamburg. There were guitars, organs,trumpets,drums,banjos,accordians(these I have seen) and probably lots of other stuff. They were made in various countries. It was a good gig for Tromsa because ,they did not export much and they were happy to sell drums for that purpose. Other brands that I have seen on Tromsa drums are,Hohner,Sonor(they made some marching drums for Sonor for a while),Concorde(Holland),Kings(Holland),Korri,Luxor,Artist,Voss,Vox and Lindberg.Only the Lindberg, Kings and Concorde appear to have been altered in any way from the stock Tromsa drums.

Deri was a separate company altogether.Into the 1960's, Deri was a composite name composed of the first two letters of the two owners names, hence the ri represented Rimmel, which the company became,in the early 60's after the other owner(whose name I cannot remember at the moment) died.

The drumkit pictured is most likely a Lindberg kit. Lindberg was a German music company,that dabbled in musical instrument marketing as well as music publishing(not sure if they are still going). Lindberg had Tromsa make a line of drums for them in the 40's and 50's but although they had Tromsa shells(I have one ,and the serial # is prefaced with Lind), they had very Deri like hardware.Lindberg,may have been a Tromsa -Deri hybrid. It gets complicated here because at some time in the 50's(I'm not sure when) Deri had a state ot the art foundry and apparently made the metal parts for most if not all of the West German drum companies. This is why there was a preoccupation in Germany in the 50's for cast aluminum parts with direct nickel plating. The Tromsa,Deri,Trixon,Lindberg hoops at the least ,made in the late 40's to early 50's are all identical-----cast aluminum with nickel plate.For some reason I can't get the catalogue link to take but here is an old 50's Lindberg catalogue----although there are not identical models pictured here, you can definitely see the similarity in lugs,tom holders,claws seem the same but the T-rods are a little different. I received a box of old nickel parts from Germany a while ago and both of those t-rod styles were in the box.

http://home .arcor.de/pfaue/tromsa/katalog/kata5/kata.htm

Posted on 13 years ago
#11
Posts: 596 Threads: 25

Yes, yes Phil, you're right absolutely - it's my mistake about Deri...

Max Deibel was Rimmel's partner and he died in 1960.

George.

Posted on 13 years ago
#12
Posts: 357 Threads: 62

The finish looks like a knock-off of capri pearl used by Slingerland in the 58-62 era with the chips, only the gold strands.

Gretsch Nitron Glass New Classic 2010 8/10/12/14/16/22
Yamaha Cherry Wood Recording Custom 1987/2005 8/10/12/13/14/16/22
Ludwig Black Diamond Pearl 1966 5x14 S.S./13/16/22
Gretsch wood finish 1959 5x14/13/16/22
Slingerland Radio King Capri Pearl 5x14 Radio King
Gretsch Silver Sparkle Catalina Club Bop 2008 18/14/12/10/5x14
Gretsch Silver Sparkle/Black Stripe Catalina Club Mod kit 22/10/12/16
Posted on 13 years ago
#13
Posts: 1570 Threads: 66

From drummingbulldog

The finish looks like a knock-off of capri pearl used by Slingerland in the 58-62 era with the chips, only the gold strands.

rather ,the Slingerland Capri Pearl would be a knockoff of this finish, since these drums predate 1958 by quite a while.

Posted on 13 years ago
#14
Posts: 904 Threads: 127

here you go,, some stuff that i picjed up when i was researching my Deri kit a year ago...

Karl Rimmel opened his shop which 1935 moves in the Landhaus am the Residenzplatz in Kempten in Diepolz in 1935.

With the instrument maker Max Deibel, Rimmel begins with the production of drums. The company is named after its founders Deibel and Rimmel "DERI".

1949 Rimmel submit an a patent for a drum boiler made of Beech plywood with the German Patent Office. This is due to a special coating fireproof.

1954 The retail moves to Kemptener Lingstraße.

A further patent for a pedal with spring steel Announces 1955 Rimmel.

1957 By a Lottogewinn Rimmel can buy a carpentry in Kempten. Here he establishes a locksmith's shop, a foundry and even an electroplating shop.

In addition to the dixi-and case drum, includes production at the end of the 1950s already Bongos, timbales, conga-style drums, timpani, field drums, fanfare, Kleinpercussion stick sticks and Bumbässe.

the only known Rimmel sold 1960s after the death of Max Deibel.

also more proof that your kit is a Deri,,please see pictures attached and i have many more deri pictures if you require any !

oh.. and by the way the wrap is Schwarz (Black) lametta as per my catalogue.

2 attachments
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45/48 Slingerland WMP
51 Luxus WMP
56 Speedfire BDP
56 Speedfire WMP
59 Speedfire Aqua
59 Speedfire Red Sparkle
59 Deri Dixi Red Perloid
59 Luxus BDP
60 Luxus Black Silver
61 Luxus WMP
62 Telstar Blue Stripe
62 Telstar Red Croc
62 Telstar Gold Croc
62 Telstar Blue Croc
63 Luxus Gold Croc
64 Speedfire Blue Sparkle
64 Luxus Black/Gold Spots
65 Speedfire Gold Croc
66 Luxus Blue Croc
66 Vox Thunderbolt Silver Croc
67 Vox Telstar Blue Croc
67 Vox Telstar Red Sparkle
Posted on 13 years ago
#15
Posts: 1570 Threads: 66

From diamond

here you go,, some stuff that i picjed up when i was researching my Deri kit a year ago...Karl Rimmel opened his shop which 1935 moves in the Landhaus am the Residenzplatz in Kempten in Diepolz in 1935. With the instrument maker Max Deibel, Rimmel begins with the production of drums. The company is named after its founders Deibel and Rimmel "DERI". 1949 Rimmel submit an a patent for a drum boiler made of Beech plywood with the German Patent Office. This is due to a special coating fireproof. 1954 The retail moves to Kemptener Lingstraße. A further patent for a pedal with spring steel Announces 1955 Rimmel. 1957 By a Lottogewinn Rimmel can buy a carpentry in Kempten. Here he establishes a locksmith's shop, a foundry and even an electroplating shop. In addition to the dixi-and case drum, includes production at the end of the 1950s already Bongos, timbales, conga-style drums, timpani, field drums, fanfare, Kleinpercussion stick sticks and Bumbässe. the only known Rimmel sold 1960s after the death of Max Deibel. also more proof that your kit is a Deri,,please see pictures attached and i have many more deri pictures if you require any !oh.. and by the way the wrap is Schwarz (Black) lametta as per my catalogue.

----not sure on the proof thing, Dave. Wraps were not made by the drum company. The maker in the case of Germany was Deutsche Celluloid Werken and they supplied the same wrap to many companies. Tromsa also used the schwarz lametta. if you go back to the Lindberg catalogue in my second last post,you will see the same lugs as the thread's kit. the lugs on you're pictured kit are entirely different---more rounded. The 4 Deri drums in my possession all have those cast aluminum with direct chrome plated lugs.The chamfered ones, such as you're kit has showed up later and are not identical to those pictured.Also ,Deri in this period used larger square tension rods---1/4" , similar to those adopted by Trowa/Tacton in the late 60's, whereas the thread's kit has short slot type tension rods. Lindberg, is a true anomaly. The shells are definitely,Tromsa----because, I have two of them and can verify that but the hardware in the early models appears to be more like , Deri. My theory is that ,Lindberg bought parts from both companies and assembled the drums themselves. Whatever the case, Deri probably had a hand in their making. What I would like to see is a photograph of the interior of the shell. I have examples of all three brands---Lindberg and Tromsa have the same shells but Deri shells are very different.

Posted on 13 years ago
#16
Posts: 1570 Threads: 66

From diamond

here you go,, some stuff that i picjed up when i was researching my Deri kit a year ago...Karl Rimmel opened his shop which 1935 moves in the Landhaus am the Residenzplatz in Kempten in Diepolz in 1935. With the instrument maker Max Deibel, Rimmel begins with the production of drums. The company is named after its founders Deibel and Rimmel "DERI". 1949 Rimmel submit an a patent for a drum boiler made of Beech plywood with the German Patent Office. This is due to a special coating fireproof. 1954 The retail moves to Kemptener Lingstraße. A further patent for a pedal with spring steel Announces 1955 Rimmel. 1957 By a Lottogewinn Rimmel can buy a carpentry in Kempten. Here he establishes a locksmith's shop, a foundry and even an electroplating shop. In addition to the dixi-and case drum, includes production at the end of the 1950s already Bongos, timbales, conga-style drums, timpani, field drums, fanfare, Kleinpercussion stick sticks and Bumbässe. the only known Rimmel sold 1960s after the death of Max Deibel. also more proof that your kit is a Deri,,please see pictures attached and i have many more deri pictures if you require any !oh.. and by the way the wrap is Schwarz (Black) lametta as per my catalogue.

I went back to Cadillac Roy's pics again. Take a look at the tom arm. The arm pictured is a Tromsa arm. I'll bet it is 20mm on both ends.The old Sonor arms were 19mm and Trixon is 22. The pictured Deri arm,you supplied has a similar clutch but the arms are cut down a bit---probably 18mm or less.

Posted on 13 years ago
#17
Posts: 904 Threads: 127

From calfskin

----not sure on the proof thing, Dave. Wraps were not made by the drum company. The maker in the case of Germany was Deutsche Celluloid Werken and they supplied the same wrap to many companies. Tromsa also used the schwarz lametta. if you go back to the Lindberg catalogue in my second last post,you will see the same lugs as the thread's kit. the lugs on you're pictured kit are entirely different---more rounded. The 4 Deri drums in my possession all have those cast aluminum with direct chrome plated lugs.The chamfered ones, such as you're kit has showed up later and are not identical to those pictured.Also ,Deri in this period used larger square tension rods---1/4" , similar to those adopted by Trowa/Tacton in the late 60's, whereas the thread's kit has short slot type tension rods. Lindberg, is a true anomaly. The shells are definitely,Tromsa----because, I have two of them and can verify that but the hardware in the early models appears to be more like , Deri. My theory is that ,Lindberg bought parts from both companies and assembled the drums themselves. Whatever the case, Deri probably had a hand in their making. What I would like to see is a photograph of the interior of the shell. I have examples of all three brands---Linberg and Tromsa have the same shells but Deri shells are very different.

very interesting piece of knowledge as always mate, and a great update on this posting...the wrap is definately Schwarz (Black) lametta but on further inspection agree that your theory is probably correct...would love to see a picture of your Deri drums mate...been gigging my Deri kit in the U.K. lately and it has been received very enthusiastically !

45/48 Slingerland WMP
51 Luxus WMP
56 Speedfire BDP
56 Speedfire WMP
59 Speedfire Aqua
59 Speedfire Red Sparkle
59 Deri Dixi Red Perloid
59 Luxus BDP
60 Luxus Black Silver
61 Luxus WMP
62 Telstar Blue Stripe
62 Telstar Red Croc
62 Telstar Gold Croc
62 Telstar Blue Croc
63 Luxus Gold Croc
64 Speedfire Blue Sparkle
64 Luxus Black/Gold Spots
65 Speedfire Gold Croc
66 Luxus Blue Croc
66 Vox Thunderbolt Silver Croc
67 Vox Telstar Blue Croc
67 Vox Telstar Red Sparkle
Posted on 13 years ago
#18
Posts: 1570 Threads: 66

From diamond

very interesting piece of knowledge as always mate, and a great update on this posting...the wrap is definately Schwarz (Black) lametta but on further inspection agree that your theory is probably correct...would love to see a picture of your Deri drums mate...been gigging my Deri kit in the U.K. lately and it has been received very enthusiastically !

I would bet that there is a lot of interest, in those. It really is a showstopper. Are you using the 4 piece setup, or allowing those single head ,stock toms to sing for a while?------pics ,eventually. I'm a late bloomer!

Posted on 13 years ago
#19
Posts: 12 Threads: 2

Wow, what a knowledge! So this is a pretty tough identification...

I did some more research and 2 well-known German vintage-drum experts (Ingo Winterberg and Fritz Steger) say it's a DERI.

The colour is indeed definately Lametta Schwarz.

Confusing, but very interesting!!! We'll get there!!!

Thanks a lot for you help!!! I'll make pics of the inside of the shell later today. Do you want to see the tom, bass or both?

Here are some pics of the set how i use it. I don't use the tom, but only the base with the cymbal. The Gretsch-decal will be taken off soon...it was already on when i bought it. The snare i use is a 1969 Gretsch roundbadge COB. The pedal is an old (but good) Ludwig SpeedKing.

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/RThomassen/gretsch001.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/RThomassen/gretsch003.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/RThomassen/gretsch004.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/RThomassen/gretsch006.jpg[/IMG]

Posted on 13 years ago
#20
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