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  #21  
Old 06-20-2019, 09:11 PM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

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Originally Posted by Drumaholic View Post
There were umbrella profiled cymbals to be found in the type IIIb period. I had one 22" and there was at least one other I have seen. Same thing for a few 18" I've seen. But in any era it seems that the thinner they get, the more likely (and apparently necessary) it becomes to make it that way. If it was flatter shaped then the wash would overwhelm the stick and render it impractical to play. The deeper profile on thinner one does 2 things. It "tightens" up the cymbal and in doing so attenuates the wash. And the tightness increases the stick definition. But the downside of this design is the deeper profile raises the fundamental up and many of the other tones with it, so that the tonal spectrum as a whole becomes narrower. That makes the cymbal sound "icy". But in cymbals with flatter profiles more range exists between the low's and the highs. But by narrowing that spectrum you can't get much on the low end but the mids and highs become more predominant. Hence that "iciness". Another result is that the cymbal also gets louder in the process, which to my taste is less desirable. With thinner cymbals that combine with a deeper profile, this strategy can actually work, but the tolerance between what constitutes just enough of both thinness profile depth, without too much of one or not enough of the other appears to be extremely narrow, and so consequently the exact combination seems very difficult to obtain. So as a result I've seen it work on only a precious few examples.
I don't mean to hijack this thread to talk about A's but what you just wrote seems to be what I'm hearing with our new 1900g 22" Trans stamp.

As I mentioned is another thread the profile is a bit flatter on one side and a bit more bowed on the other, but the cymbal still lays flat. Very odd. Anyway, I said in that thread that the cymbal sounds very different depending on where you play it. Reviewing it again after reading your post I noticed that on the flatter side the sticking is far less defined and controllable with an almost overwhelming wash if you dig in a bit. On the opposite side which is a bit heavier, with greater bowing, the sticking has much more definition and is slightly brighter, and can be easily heard over the more controlled wash even when digging in. The difference between one side and the other is not subtle. As a result this cymbal sounds its best in a relatively small area.
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Last edited by BosLover; 06-20-2019 at 09:14 PM.
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  #22  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:19 PM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

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Originally Posted by BosLover View Post
I don't mean to hijack this thread to talk about A's but what you just wrote seems to be what I'm hearing with our new 1900g 22" Trans stamp.

As I mentioned is another thread the profile is a bit flatter on one side and a bit more bowed on the other, but the cymbal still lays flat. Very odd. Anyway, I said in that thread that the cymbal sounds very different depending on where you play it. Reviewing it again after reading your post I noticed that on the flatter side the sticking is far less defined and controllable with an almost overwhelming wash if you dig in a bit. On the opposite side which is a bit heavier, with greater bowing, the sticking has much more definition and is slightly brighter, and can be easily heard over the more controlled wash even when digging in. The difference between one side and the other is not subtle. As a result this cymbal sounds its best in a relatively small area.
Now the trick is to get the cymbal to stay in the preferred orientation so the sweet spot is always where you want it. I do this by using a rubber cymbal rest. That way the cymbal can't re-adjust its orientation during playing.
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  #23  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:31 PM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

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Originally Posted by Drumaholic View Post
Now the trick is to get the cymbal to stay in the preferred orientation so the sweet spot is always where you want it. I do this by using a rubber cymbal rest. That way the cymbal can't re-adjust its orientation during playing.
Not a problem at all. Its a bit heavier on that side and naturally stays in that position when tilted so that the main point of contact is around 3 inches just to the right of the stamp and never shifts back and forth from that point in either direction more than an inch or two..
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Last edited by BosLover; 06-20-2019 at 10:35 PM.
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  #24  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:55 PM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

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Not a problem at all. Its a bit heavier on that side and naturally stays in that position when tilted so that the main point of contact is around 3 inches just to the right of the stamp and never shifts back and forth from that point in either direction more than an inch or two..
O.K. that's good. But I never let my cymbals make their own decisions decisions on how they want to be oriented. In fact I mount them in exactly the opposite of what they would naturally want to be in. And by using rubber mounts combined with that particular mounting strategy I minimize the contact surface area of contact between cymbal and mount, which gives the cymbal less dampening that you'd get with felt washers; and that way the cymbals full tonality is expressed as a result. Eg. it's similar to how a cymbal sounds more open while playing it while holding it on your finger tip. With this method I've found that I can reproduce essentially the same thing when the I have the cymbal mounted on my stand. I've found that this way the cymbal can "breathe" better with the result being a more natural cymbal vibration and fullness of tone.

This is not for everybody because some players prefer that their cymbals to be restrained and dampened by felt washers both top and bottom with the wing-nut torqued down tight. Not for me, but to each his own.
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  #25  
Old 06-21-2019, 12:41 AM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

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Originally Posted by Drumaholic View Post
O.K. that's good. But I never let my cymbals make their own decisions decisions on how they want to be oriented. In fact I mount them in exactly the opposite of what they would naturally want to be in. And by using rubber mounts combined with that particular mounting strategy I minimize the contact surface area of contact between cymbal and mount, which gives the cymbal less dampening that you'd get with felt washers; and that way the cymbals full tonality is expressed as a result. Eg. it's similar to how a cymbal sounds more open while playing it while holding it on your finger tip. With this method I've found that I can reproduce essentially the same thing when the I have the cymbal mounted on my stand. I've found that this way the cymbal can "breathe" better with the result being a more natural cymbal vibration and fullness of tone.

This is not for everybody because some players prefer that their cymbals to be restrained and dampened by felt washers both top and bottom with the wing-nut torqued down tight. Not for me, but to each his own.
What's a top washer? I came of age in the '60s. I saw Gene Krupa live at the Louisiana pavilion at the 1964 NY World's fair on my 18th birthday. I've been playing a very long time. I was playing Take Five with my junior high school friends when it was still new and all these years later I still don't understand why anyone uses a top washer. I want my cymbals to move and breath. It took me literally the first 10 years he played to convince my son not to use one. In the case of this cymbal the sweet spot (for me and Dan, anyway) just happens to be where the cymbals naturally sits.
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Last edited by BosLover; 06-21-2019 at 12:55 AM.
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  #26  
Old 06-21-2019, 01:32 AM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

Top washers should be declared illegal. And all offenders should be beaten severely about the head and shoulders with rubber truncheons.
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  #27  
Old 06-21-2019, 01:33 AM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

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Originally Posted by BosLover View Post
What's a top washer? I came of age in the '60s. I saw Gene Krupa live at the Louisiana pavilion at the 1964 NY World's fair on my 18th birthday. I've been playing a very long time. I was playing Take Five with my junior high school friends when it was still new and all these years later I still don't understand why anyone uses a top washer. I want my cymbals to move and breath. It took me literally the first 10 years he played to convince my son not to use one. In the case of this cymbal the sweet spot (for me and Dan, anyway) just happens to be where the cymbals naturally sits.
Gosh, I had no idea that you such an old f-a-r-t.
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  #28  
Old 06-21-2019, 06:11 AM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

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Gosh, I had no idea that you such an old f-a-r-t.
It's only a state of mind, and the state of my mind is just fi.....
???????????????????????
Hello. I'm sorry, Who are you? What were we talking about again?
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Last edited by BosLover; 06-21-2019 at 06:13 AM.
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  #29  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:05 AM
OddBall OddBall is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

Quote:
Originally Posted by BosLover View Post
What's a top washer? I came of age in the '60s. I saw Gene Krupa live at the Louisiana pavilion at the 1964 NY World's fair on my 18th birthday. I've been playing a very long time. I was playing Take Five with my junior high school friends when it was still new and all these years later I still don't understand why anyone uses a top washer. I want my cymbals to move and breath. It took me literally the first 10 years he played to convince my son not to use one. In the case of this cymbal the sweet spot (for me and Dan, anyway) just happens to be where the cymbals naturally sits.
I remember getting kicked out of the van going to Woodstock so some chick could go instead. I remember what a top washer is too, it's a simple spacer that holds your cymbal from spinning or rocking causing it to keyhole and then it hangs too low and devalues it considerably. It's not rocket science but it does take a bit of understanding. There's too tight and too lose. Now you could use other things like that arm with the rubber tip, but I keep hitting it so I use a top washer instead. If not, the wingnut crushes into the felt. I have six rivet holes, but no keyholes. Gene could do as he wants and replace his as needed, Not me. All you got to remember is Bronze vs steel, steel wins every time.
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  #30  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:10 AM
OddBall OddBall is offline
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Default Re: New Stamp Old Ks

Quote:
Originally Posted by BosLover View Post
I don't mean to hijack this thread to talk about A's but what you just wrote seems to be what I'm hearing with our new 1900g 22" Trans stamp.

As I mentioned is another thread the profile is a bit flatter on one side and a bit more bowed on the other, but the cymbal still lays flat. Very odd. Anyway, I said in that thread that the cymbal sounds very different depending on where you play it. Reviewing it again after reading your post I noticed that on the flatter side the sticking is far less defined and controllable with an almost overwhelming wash if you dig in a bit. On the opposite side which is a bit heavier, with greater bowing, the sticking has much more definition and is slightly brighter, and can be easily heard over the more controlled wash even when digging in. The difference between one side and the other is not subtle. As a result this cymbal sounds its best in a relatively small area.
I caught a lot of crap saying I dented and warped my B8 ride by hitting it hard,...It does lay pretty flat on the table, I,m Beginning to rethink that now after what Bill said.
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