Interesting use of the word "fool".

Here's my :2Cents:

If I find a CL ad for something rare/vintage super cheaply priced, I contact the person and try to check it out. If I find it is something rare and worth more than the asking price I usually tell them that what the are selling is worth more than what they are asking. Then I offer them something reasonable for it. (MEANING SOMETHING I'M WILLING TO PAY WITHOUT LOWBALLING THEM EITHER) Usually less than what its truly worth, but not something thats insulting to someone who knows what its really worth. Usually they are happy because they got more than they were asking for and they feel they didn't get ripped off when someone tells them that their stuff is worth more than they are asking. As long as both parties are happy where's the harm and foul? If I decide to flip the stuff after for market value, what's the harm and foul? The person I bought it from got more than they wanted for it and I made money when I sold it....this is the basis of capitalism is it not?

There's a show in the History channel called American Pickers......they do exactly this.....maybe some should watch it before commeting on ethics of flipping. They buy complete "junk" from people.....people know what they do, and they are able to turn a profit. So I still say, whats the harm/foul?

I think one thing to consider is that the people who fish for these great deals and then turn a huge profit on them are actually doing the musical community somewhat of a service, in my opinion. These people who have this stuff and don't know what it's worth or what to do with it will undoubtedly give it to someone who will destroy it or simply junk it one day.

When a dealer rescues (or "steals" if you will) a kit or whatever from someone's attic or basement and sells it for a lot more than they paid, obviously the end buyer will be a serious player or collector; someone who knows what they're buying and will likely take good care of it.

Capitalism is capitalism but I think the fact that these old instruments are being somehow saved from oblivion deserves some respect.

Mind you, I'm just a player myself, not a seller or collector. I don't like people taking advantage of others' ignorance more than the next guy.

I guess from my perspective, from the one's I've run in to are tyre kickers! I actually kinda get a kick out of it, as from my first post, this moron, throws lowball numbers at me, then wants all the info I can give them and detailed pics to boot! in my area, I have a lot of people that know I collect and restore vintage drums, so I have a good network here in my area, kevins is a good buddy of mine and If I'm not Interested in an Item, he's the first person to know about it, also some of my forum buds are in my loop they are then contacted next, if they pass, then I full inform the owner of said Instrument of worth, history etc,I in good faith cannot let some low life steal it from them! I know all the big dealers on the east coast they know me, and they don't operate that way either, I would rather sleep well than worry rich! karma is a funny thing and very simple, treat others as you would have them treat you,I've gotten some deals but the drums needed major work, so both parties left happy in the end! just my :2Cents:

Wouldn't the party have been just as happy if you paid them their asking price? In my experiece, when people don't know what something is worth they really don't care; they just want to get some "junk" out of their basement. If they were trying to maximize their profit they would do the necessary research to find out what it's worth. After all, we have invested the time to become knowledgable. Why would you want to give that knowledge away for free? In my line of work, we pay consultants for that knowledge because they provide an invaluable service.

That said, I've "paid it forward" from time to time. If I know what something is worth but I'm not going to try to buy it, I'll give the seller a heads up. Sometimes they appreciate it and sometimes they tell me to mind my own businessLoLoLoLo And, I've been on the recieving end as well. It almost cost the potential buyer a shot at the "unicorn" he had been searching years to find due to someone helping me out. These days, I just stay out of it or let another potential buyer know about something if I decide to pass.

In the end, I just don't see the point in offering someone $50 or $100 or more for something. If someone tried that with me, I would become suspicious and take the time to figure out it's actual value. The practice almost seems more deceptive than just paying the asking price or negotiating (which is customary in society). Has this practice ever backfired??

BTW, I love American Pickers!! However, I can't recall an episode where they offered someone more than what they were asking. From what I can tell, they try to buy things at 50% - 60% of market value or "wholesale" so that they can make a profit...which is also a cornerstone principal of Capitalism.

WOW! egw: That is some really convoluted thinking. Don't know what to think about it. But the term family hairloom comes to mind. I'am just a player also not a collector.

vintagemore2000 I feel that we think alike. I just told a friend of mine's mother how rare her sisters drums were and that I would be willing to pay a lot more than she wanted for the kit. She thanked me for being honest with her. I feel comfortable with her decision to make the kit a family hairloom that she will keep and pass on to other responsible family members. I also told her not to restore them but keep them just the way her sister left them.

Ludwig-dude the "pickers" show is really a good example of how to barter to make a reasonable profit. But as we all know just like the show, sometimes we lose money but we also know thats part of the process.

I also detest all buyers that are out to really buy to make obscene profits. TOM - drummer

For the record, the usage of "capitalism" here is incorrect. There is no discussion of government or individual or laisse faire input or restrictive marketing.

The concept running through this thread is greed. There is a marked difference between capitalism and personal greed. The two are very different. This is not a free-market system as described. Please do not hide moral choices behind an economic socio-political word.

I have seen some posts on here where a guy posts pics of his shiny new drums and tells the world how little he paid for them. Do you know what? I have NEVER seen ANYONE tell that guy he should go back and give the seller more money as they were worth way more than he paid....

With that said, the comments are usually totally FOR the buyer. Words like HOME RUN!!, I AM JEALOUS!!, WHY CAN'T I FIND THOSE DEALS?, etc. etc. These are always the comments to the OP's starter that details his plunders.

My point? I don't have one. I am merely suggesting that everyone wants to be the guy who is doing the taking, not the one being took and the ones who say money isn't everything are the ones who have plenty of money in the first place......

:2Cents:

have a wonderful evening

drumhack guitar2Eye BallSumo Dude;)CryBaby

Very good point. The reason for curbed remarks is because it would be in bad taste to jump in the middle of a persons joyfest and slam their ethics. This thread is host to the topic, hence the depth. Personally, I could care less how unethical one treats another. It's to be expected in this world. I'm very careful who I do business with for precisely that reason. I've let gobs of deals go by with members on this forum because I didn't get the warm and fuzzy. I've made some bad choices, for sure. I just finished out a deal with one of the countries largest vintage drum dealers that was so freekin' twisted and wrong, I gave the guy more merch just to stop the whining. It was yet another lesson in peoples lack of ethics. People suck. Plain and simple. Sometimes, though ... if you're very quiet and very watchful ... you can run across one who actually understands the difference between right and wrong and who doesn't worship money to the point of selling off his word for a few more bucks. Those make for good deals and good friends.

2 sides to the coin:

Not everyone is trying to make the most money they can or rip anyone off. Here is another scenario -a true one!

Guy's wife calls him up on the cellphone and says she's at a yard sale and there is a "little red set of drums here for thirty bucks..."Do you want me to get them?"

The guy says, "Sure, why not..."

The guy then comes to this forum and says, "What do I have and how much are they worth?" He posts a picture of a stack of red sparkle keystone badge drums.

Long story short...I tell him, "You have a Ludwig Jazzette...blah, blah, blah -never expecting him to want to ever get rid of them. But, I put in my usual, "If you ever want to sell those, I'll give you more than thirty bucks for them!"

I get a PM. The guy's son or brother or someone is getting married and so make an offer for the drums -since I was the guy who answered his inquiry. Nice! But I only had so much money to offer. So I offered him what I could afford to offer him -a lot more than the thirty bucks he was out!

He was totally happy with the offer and I could tell he thought it was his lucky day. At the same time, I felt it was my lucky day -unless the drums showed up in horrible condition. But they didn't.

The moral to the story, here, was that he wanted some extra cash for the wedding more than he needed a red sparkle set of drums. I wanted a set f red sparkle drums more than I wanted the money I had to offer. At the end of the day, he probably could have held out longer and gotten a lot more money for the drums. But that wasn't his interest at the immediate time. So all was well that ended well!

Keep in mind, a few weeks before I got them, they were sitting outside on a damp lawn or in the bright sun at a yard sale! Now, they are in a climate-controlled room and they get played and LOVED! Occasionally, they even make it out to a gig or two!

Happy Ending? Yes!