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Vintage Ludwig catalogs on CD ROM -Jazzette

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It seems they were really pushing the Jazzette because of all the Roy Haynes ads...I wonder if Ludwig was trying to create a market geared toward jazz musicians with the aim of Ludwig no longer being thought of as rock drums. Maybe this contributed to them purposefully offering wraps for the jazz line that were entirely different than the rock drums.

Roy Haynes' walnut? keystone badge jazzette kit was auctioned off by Guernsey's a few years ago...you can still see the flyer and photo through a google search...I wonder who ended up with it?

Also, here's some controversy, I seem to remember hearing somewhere that Slingerland actually was the first to make a jazzette kit with an 18x12, and that Roy's suggestion and following product development was when he was a Slingerland endorsee. I'm sure Bud wasn't pleased when he switched to Ludwig!

http://www.classicvintagedrums.com
Posted on 16 years ago
#21
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So I guess I'm confused now. I never really paid attention, but I thought my set has a 14x18 bass drum. Is the jazzette only a 12x18? Am I out of the club??ViolinCryBaby I would think 12 inches deep would be pretty small to deal with. I am already having a little bit of trouble getting my bass drum to not bounce around when it is played. I can only imaging 12". I guess I should go home and measure before I go any further.

Great work on the info so far!

"wfl does not stand for world football league!"
Posted on 16 years ago
#22
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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Quoted post

It seems they were really pushing the Jazzette because of all the Roy Haynes ads...I wonder if Ludwig was trying to create a market geared toward jazz musicians with the aim of Ludwig no longer being thought of as rock drums. Maybe this contributed to them purposefully offering wraps for the jazz line that were entirely different than the rock drums. Roy Haynes' walnut? keystone badge jazzette kit was auctioned off by Guernsey's a few years ago...you can still see the flyer and photo through a google search...I wonder who ended up with it?Also, here's some controversy, I seem to remember hearing somewhere that Slingerland actually was the first to make a jazzette kit with an 18x12, and that Roy's suggestion and following product development was when he was a Slingerland endorsee. I'm sure Bud wasn't pleased when he switched to Ludwig!

mlvibes,

VERY interesting about the Slingerland factor in all of this! The plot continues to thicken!

From the look of the grain in that photo, that's mahogany -for sure. I'll wager it's NOT a Cortex wrap, either. It's a very nice-looking mahogany veneer (as in, a Ludwig 3-ply shell where the outer ply is mahogany). I would imagine that since mahogany and maple were two of the woods they used in the 3-ply shells, anyway, they simply adjusted the outer ply as being mahogany or maple and then finished it with lacquer. But...the ad is un-clear (to me) what they actually mean by "mahogany, maple OR lacquer". All I can think is that they were supposed to be natural wood, in any case, but that some of them could be lacquered to make them glossy? Roy's mahogany kit in that PDF doesn't look shiny...Could it have been an un-finished veneer...or a "satin" finish -as opposed to a "lacquer" (gloss) finish?

Link to PDF:

http://www.guernseys.com/Auctions/Jazz/Docs/AddendumFinal.pdf

The 1967 ad clearly states the limited finish options as mahogany or maple -ONLY The PDF of Roy's kit appears to be a natural mahogany finish -which would be in keeping with the ad-information. Roy Haynes undoubtedly was given an extremely-nice example of the mahogany version... See all that vertical "banding" of the grain? That's seen in very nice pieces of mahogany. The color in the PDF appears to be faded -again, possibly because the wood is not protected.

Gretsch already (apparently) had a kit out there with a 14" X 18" bass drum and they were the brand of choice in the jazz world at the time. Ludwig maybe pulled some strings...got Roy Haynes as an endorser and created an ad campaign around him in an attempt to steal some of that market away from Gretsch. Gretsch had Elvin, but Ludwig got Roy and both of those guys were hot commodities in the jazz realm at the time. Roy was probably given carte-blanche at Ludwig.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 16 years ago
#23
Posts: 1190 Threads: 86
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when he was a Slingerland endorsee. I'm sure Bud wasn't pleased when he switched to Ludwig![/QUOTE]

He was a Slingerland endorsER not EE...sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.

Posted on 16 years ago
#24
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There is nothing wrong with saying "endorsee." Think of it as, "Roy Haynes was a Slingerland (check) endorsee." You'll find most music instrument companies call them endorsees.

http://www.classicvintagedrums.com
Posted on 16 years ago
#25
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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From when-to-when did Roy Haynes endorse Slingerland? Approximately what year did Slingerland make a Jazzette kit for Roy? I assume that the "switch" came somewhere around 1966-67 since that was when the Ludwig Jazzette first appeared in the Ludwig catalog. But, when did Roy start publicly endorsing them -because the ad with Roy and the Jazzette is from the early 70's. Were there other Roy Haynes/jazzette ads that preceded that one?

Thanks.

Burger Kin

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 16 years ago
#26
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We may have to dig for this one...

In the 1965 Slingerland catalog there is a picture of Roy Haynes on the endorsement page, but his bass drum is blocked out so you can't make out the size of it.

http://www.classicvintagedrums.com
Posted on 16 years ago
#27
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Found these:

From '66

[img]http://69.6.216.143/roy66.jpg[/img]

From '67

[img]http://69.6.216.143/roy67.jpg[/img]

http://www.classicvintagedrums.com
Posted on 16 years ago
#28
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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Those are great, mlvibes!

Say...Does anyone know if there were any "Jazzette" bass drums that were advertised in the 70's catalogs where the bass drum was 14" instead of 12"? I see on another forum where there is a maple 18" bass drum with double curved spurs from the 70's and the people are mentioning references to a 14" depth. What gives? Were there Jazzette bass drums that were 14"?

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 16 years ago
#29
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Don't forget the margin of error on the badges themselves. The 1966 badge could have been at the bottom of the badge bin and used in 1967.

Matt

Ludwig-Zildjian-Aquarian
Posted on 16 years ago
#30
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