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Vintage 1980s Italian High Hats!!!

Posts: 24 Threads: 3

Hi all, I just picked up a pair of 14” B20 by Sabian High Hat cymbals that were made in Italy. They have an actual small stamp into the metal that says B20 By Sabian and a larger ink stamp in black on the top. The words “Made In Italy" is stamped on the underside of each cymbal with a small metric size and weights stamping on them. These things are hand hammered and lathed and sound really excellent too!!!

They have a great handmade sounding musical spread with a softer and slightly darker jazz tone sort of sound like my early and thinner 60s 15" New Beats.

OK, This is what I believe to be the complete story pertaining to this model from everything I’ve been able to find on some Internet searches.

It seems that Tosco was a small private cymbal company located in Italy and were very close in design and similar to the UFIP cymbal company which also did rotocasting on their B20 bronze cymbals. Tosco made high-end rotocast cymbals from the 1940s through the mid 80s too. Sabian, purchased the Tosco company in the mid 1980s and for around two years just re-branded the Italian made Tosco’s that were older stock with their name on these specific models. After about two years, Sabian closed out the Italian Tosco cymbal factory and relocated their manufacturing process to Canada to produce the Sabian line of cymbals that we all know about today.

Sabian then produced a budget line of cymbals called Tosco, By Sabian, and these were a lower quality beginner range cymbal branded for their company. I believe that the cymbals that I have are early rotocast pre-Sabian Tosco’s and they really are fantastic sounding cymbals! Please let me know if I have this information listed correctly!

Pictures to come after I clean them up a little!

Thanks again!

Posted on 11 years ago
#1
Posts: 24 Threads: 3

Hello again, I just spent some more time comparing these to my 15" early 60s New Beats and here's what I think.

These are higher in tone but still very smooth with plenty of musical overtones running through them. I was thinking of only keeping one set of high hats and I can't really seem to decide which ones I like better now (lol)!

They’re both very musical in their own unique ways and this is going to be more difficult than I originally thought! OK, I do like the lower softer tones (early jazzy) sound on my vintage New Beats... smooth, think made in Turkey jazz bop...Yes, I do like that for some of the smaller lower volume gigs I do once every now and then. I think the Sabians would be a better all around sound and have just a little more volume and higher tone over the New Beats.

I just might have to keep both sets...I could use the extra cash though???

Thanks again!!!band3

Posted on 11 years ago
#2
Guest

From Pinksterboer The Cymbal Book (1992) you get different dates and a different story:

Quoted post

1973: Buiani, one of the UFiP partners starts Tosco with Giovanni Spadacini. This Italian factory later on (1979) is owned by Robert Zildjian, who has his Sabian B20 cymbals made there. In October 1986 Tosco is closed.

Quoted post

According to Spadacini the company never applied the rotocasting process. Tosco mainly made two series of Italian-style B20 cymbals. One series was only machine hammered, the other series was also hammered by hand.

So not rotocast according to this, but since it is in the Italian tradition it was still cast in a cymbal shaped mold. The mold just wasn't spun at high speed.

Quoted post

Sabian has been selling Tosco-made cymbals under the name of Sabian B20 from 1982 to 1985, clearly distinguishing them from their own Canadian cymbals. Tosco "by Sabian" cymbals have been sold in the USA by Samson

So there seem to be two series distinguished: "Tosco by Sabian" and "B20 by Sabian". It would be good to see what the hamming on yours actually looks like. I've seen a few before (not in person, just in photos). Pinksterboer isn't explicit if one or both "Tosco by Sabian" and "B20 by Sabian" are budget series. I find he can often seem a bit vague like that.

Posted on 11 years ago
#3
Posts: 24 Threads: 3

Thanks for the additional info!!! Here's some pics I just took at your request.

These cymbals have beautiful hand hammering on them and being made out of B20 Italian bronze.....must have been top flight cymbals in their day! These have the same type of high quality construction and sound as other vintage hand made cymbals that are in my collection now! Thanks again!!!The Band

PS...Now that the cats are out of the bag, I really wonder if these will start to go up just a little in price???

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Posted on 11 years ago
#4
Guest

Those do look really nice. I can see what you mean about the hammering which looks hand done. Not quite like some of the UFiP hammering and lathing. A different take on things, but part of that Italian style.

Posted on 11 years ago
#5
Posts: 1292 Threads: 147

Very cool! Another link in the Zildian/Sabian history with an Italian twist! I'll keep my eye out for these! Nice score!

1964 Ludwig Champagne Super Classic
1970 Ludwig Blue Oyster Super Classic
1977 Rogers Big R Londoner 5 ebony
1972/1978 Rogers Powertone/Big R mix ebony
60's Ludwig Supersensitive
Pearl B4514 COB snare ( the SC snare)
Pearl Firecracker
PJL WMP maple snare
Odds & Sods

Sabians, Paistes, Zildjians, Zyns, UFIPs, MIJs etc
Item may be subject to change!
Posted on 11 years ago
#6
Posts: 152 Threads: 11

Never played any, but I have talked with people who have. Some actually prefer these over Canadian made Sabian cymbals. Later on, Sabain used the Tosco factory for B8 pies, but those early B20 ones are quite nice, I am told.

Perhaps someone at Sabian might be able to gather some more info on them for you. I would email them.

Posted on 11 years ago
#7
Posts: 24 Threads: 3

Thanks for all the GREAT replies!!!Clapping Happy2

I really can't believe how nice these B20s sound. These sort of remind me more of a very early pair of 14" 70s New Beats that I had some time ago (wish I still had them)! They were slightly thinner for 70s cymbals but had a real nice and unique sound to them!

I can't really say how other early Tosco/Sabian/Zildjian Italian B20s would sound because there's a few different variants around from what I can find with different logos, hammering, and the colors on them.

I've just seen a "Tosco" Italian branded ride with a blue stamping on it. I just might try to build up a small collection of all the different types I can find...might be cool to attempt that too!:D

Thanks again...GREAT FORUM HERE!!!Cool1

Posted on 11 years ago
#8
Posts: 816 Threads: 72

Never underestimate Italian made cymbals.

Posted on 11 years ago
#9
Posts: 621 Threads: 41

The ink on your cymbals is definitely the old style Sabian font, so they're probably early Sabians. I've got a pair of 'tosco by Sabian' hats & a pair of Tosco B20 hats--I need to drag 'em out & compare them.........marko

Posted on 11 years ago
#10
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