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Rewrapping vintage Ludwig with Tolex ?

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Hey folks,

I just had a question for anyone who might have any experience and be willing to answer my question concerning re-wrapping an old Ludwig Rockers kit in Tolex wrap..

I'm about to embark on a restoration project using extra Ludwig 1st generation Rockers shells (circa 1980) that i had bought used recently..

This is strictly to have an extra "players kit" for some gigs..

I found a furniture upholstery repair shop and the guy showed me swatches of tons of really nice colors of the "faux leather" and i had finally settled on a really nice seafoam green ..It looks like the type those old vintage and new boutique amps have, really nice vintage vibe..

Now to the question..

Which method should i use for adhesion ?..I've read many forums where guitar players were recovering their old amps, and many guys had different opinions concerning the glue.. Some say Tolex glue, specially made for this type of adhesion, others say Gorilla glue, others say 3m "90 glue, etc..

Has anyone had any experience doing this ? Say with a vintage Ludwig Black Panther re-wrap, or custom build ?..

Any thoughts, opinions, and suggestions are greatly appreciated..

Posted on 10 years ago
#1
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I use that stuff all the time. First let me tell you what NOT to do. DON'T use standard hardware store contact cement. It will cause the wrap to bubble. Some of them such as the sparkle wraps I use, are self healing and the bubbling will subside and the wrap tighten up on it's own. But I can't vouch for all so I'd avoid it.

I use plain old elmers glue in three strips around the entire circumference of the drum, and then I use one piece of double sided tape at the seam. The elmers is non-reactive and water soluble making it easy to work with and easy to clean up and most importantly, it won't harm the wrap.

Now I know some people think you should use really really strong glue over every square inch of the drum. But really, what is the point? It's the double sided tape that does the real work of keeping the wrap attached to the drum, the glue simply keeps the wrap from sliding. Once applied, that wrap isn't going anywhere, there really is no reason to over adhere it to the shell. You don't have to resort to overkill to achieve a good result. But if you ever need to re-wrap, you'll be very glad you didn't. Trust me on this one.

Georgia Phil Custom Drumworks
https://www.GeorgiaPhil.com

Drum Wrap, Drum Heads, Drum Accessories
https://www.StuffForDrummers.com
Posted on 10 years ago
#2
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Let me tell you, And this is from an upholsterers point of view...Use weldwood landau glue and a cheap harbor freight spray gun. This is providing you have access to an air compressor. It's strong, easy to clean with gas or mineral spirits,(which won't hurt the vinyl or wood) and using a heat gun, you can remove it. The stuff is tuff enough that I use it in my upholstery shop as well as wrap drums with it. I've wrapped a few kits and they're still holding. Just go to your local upholstery shop and ask for landau glue. Or order it online.

Posted on 10 years ago
#3
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Excuse my ignorance but what is Tolex and what is the advantage of using it to wrap a drum instead of regular drum wrap?

Posted on 10 years ago
#4
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I had a set of Black Panther wrapped Ludwig's and they way they did it was to glue the tolex to a very thin plastic like mylar and then glued it to the shell.

I would think you would have to stabilize it before putting it on but amp cabinets are not done like that but they also are not a porous wood either. I would experiment before doing the whole kit just to have it start falling off later.

I would use 3M latex glue.....

Posted on 10 years ago
#5
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Mutant Mozart wrote:

> I know some people think you should use really really strong glue over every square inch of the drum. But really, what is the point?

The 'point' is to -bond- the wrap to the shell so that it becomes one and vibrates with the shell. It's all about transfer of vibration from the head to the shell. If the wrap is completely bonded to the wood shell it will vibrate in sympathy with the shell. If the wrap is just in loose contact with the wood it is the equivalent of throwing a wet blanket on them. The lack of contact between the wrap and shell will cause the wrap to act like a muffler and deaden vibration. Wrap that has been completely bonded to the shell will vibrate in sympathy with the wood shell and the drum will resonate.

It's important not to have any air pockets between the wrap and the shell. That's why I don't like the 'tape method.' If you're going to wrap a drum, do it right and use an adhesive that will mechanically/physically -bond- the wrap to the shell all over, allowing the wrap to become one with the shell. The wrap is just 'another ply' and should be adhered the same way all the other plies are, it becomes part of the shell.

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 10 years ago
#6
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From Purdie Shuffle

Mutant Mozart wrote:> I know some people think you should use really really strong glue over every square inch of the drum. But really, what is the point? The 'point' is to -bond- the wrap to the shell so that it becomes one and vibrates with the shell. It's all about transfer of vibration from the head to the shell. If the wrap is completely bonded to the wood shell it will vibrate in sympathy with the shell. If the wrap is just in loose contact with the wood it is the equivalent of throwing a wet blanket on them. The lack of contact between the wrap and shell will cause the wrap to act like a muffler and deaden vibration. Wrap that has been completely bonded to the shell will vibrate in sympathy with the wood shell and the drum will resonate.It's important not to have any air pockets between the wrap and the shell. That's why I don't like the 'tape method.' If you're going to wrap a drum, do it right and use an adhesive that will mechanically/physically -bond- the wrap to the shell all over, allowing the wrap to become one with the shell. The wrap is just 'another ply' and should be adhered the same way all the other plies are, it becomes part of the shell.John

Perfect answer to a very good question. Excellent explanation John!


Thank you!
Jeff C

"Enjoy every sandwich" Warren Zevon
Posted on 10 years ago
#7
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From Gerald Sterken

Excuse my ignorance but what is Tolex and what is the advantage of using it to wrap a drum instead of regular drum wrap?

Tolex is the generic term for textured vinyl products most commonly found on amplifiers and speaker cabinets. It is fairly thin and pron to tearing but most amplifier manufacturers use it.

tnsquint
Very proud owner of a new Blaemire Snare 6.5 x 14 made by Jerry Jenkins "Drumjinx"
Posted on 10 years ago
#8
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From tnsquint

Tolex is the generic term for textured vinyl products most commonly found on amplifiers and speaker cabinets. It is fairly thin and pron to tearing but most amplifier manufacturers use it.

Thanks for the response to my question. I learn something new everyday on this forum.

Posted on 10 years ago
#9
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Before you set your heart on a specific vinyl wrap, check out the sparkle vinyl MutantMozart mentioned.

I've used it and it looks great.

I have a rescue MIJ bass drum to wrap and I'll look into that "landau" adhesive. Have used Scotch 70 spray adhesive to good effect.

-Erik
______
Early '70's Slingerland New Rock #50 in blue agate (20-16-13-12)
Late '50's WFL Swingster/Barrett Deems in black/gold Duco
'70's Slingerland Gene Krupa Sound King COB
'76 Ludwig Supraphonic
early '70's Ludwig Acrolite
'80's Ludwig Rocker II 6 1/2" snare
Rogers Supreme Big "R" hi hat
Posted on 10 years ago
#10
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