I know what you're saying, man. I am just too curious to hear real vintage drums. They almost always have some characteristic (like it or not) to them that most modern drums don't have. Drums were designed to be played just like cars were made to be driven. I like looking at them, too. I like cleaning them up when they're dirty...It's a zen" thing, I guess! :). Whatever it is, I could never put them behind glass and just look at them. It's like putting a bird into a cage. What's the point? But...Some people like putting birds into cages and some people like putting drums into cages. Some people like buying a nice sofa and then putting a clear vinyl cover over it. Why? I don't know. Maybe it's the need to take dominion over something? That's what I am curious to find out about with this thread.

Anecdote: Last night, I took my old Ludwig Junior bass drum out again to my gig. The last time I used it was in a completely different type of room -a very quiet, romantic place. This time, however, the gig was noisy and there were lots of people crowded around....drinking going on etc. Well, the old Junior and the fluffy wool beater were no match for that particular dynamic and the sound was lost inside all of the ambient noises that were going on. Even in the near-field, it was almost invisible. The tone was too low- it had no "cut" -no attack to the note. Fail. The next time we play there in March, I will have a different plan.

But, even though that old drum didn't cut the gig, it was really fun to bring it. It's a matter of finding the right tool for the job. It's kind of a pity (in my opinion) to have a drum or drums which are so rare and nice, that you never really try them out.

Of course, I don't "abuse" any of my drums, either. I have no Keith Moon fantasies...put it that way! ;) I know enough to know not to expect a Ludwig Junior bass drum with calfskin heads to be able to perform the way a Vistalite bass drum with mylar heads might perform, for example. And it's because I know these things, that I am less apprehensive to play what I have.

That's my take on it, anyway.

...

First off, I don't consider it hoarding, it's simply collecting...I have close to 500 snare drums...approx. 450 of them are my "museum" collectables and the other 50 +/- are the ones I play/teach on.

1. Do you put them behind glass and stare at them?...some of my rarest are under glass and on custom shelves..."staring" is the wrong word and gives into the ones who put down collections like this one...I admire these drums as they are pieces of American drum making history.

2. Do you play them?...not in their current condition which is all original with calf heads and gut/silk-wound/Snappi snares...these drums sound like they would have 70-100 yrs. ago.

3. Do you sell them to other collectors until they are eventually all gone? ...I've sold only a few of my rarest, one that just turned out to be the correct business deal to do and a few more that I had doubles or triples of.

4. Do you take them to your grave?...you don't see luggage on a hearse so if these drums out live me then my wife and daughter know who to talk to and they are free to take the money and run...If I out live these drums

they may become an extra source of retirement income...or not...either way I can truthfully say that I have had an extremely fun time doing this hobby.

5. Is it the competition of snatching something desirable away from someone else and then taking dominion over it? It's a curious thing....way too much psychology into that question...I collect, simple as that..If I win an eBay auction I don't feel that I "snatched" it from someone in order to take "dominion" over it; I bought it because I wanted it for my collection...all you have to do is bid higher if you want the drum.

6. What do you do with them once you get them?...I clean/restore the drum, send photos to some fellow collectors/friends/forums and enjoy my latest aquisition.

There you go...

Mike Curotto

++++10

Great post Mike C. And ....... a great book as well. I picked it up in November. Tremendous.

Thanks for those kind words Mr. Ploughman...

Mike Curotto

Wow! Thanks for that detailed response, Mike! Everyone knows you are one of the ultimate snare drum collectors for sure. I love your collection and I'm glad someone like you is in stewardship of those drums.

History is cool. I appreciate your documentation of all the drums in your collection, too. I still have to get a copy of your book sometime. I'm just stuck in the 60's at the moment!

"hoarding" and "taking dominion of" isn't so hard to understand. It may be more of an American thing, though. I'm not sure if I have ever heard of a large number of international collectors who have large individual drum collections....maybe a few. Of course, that's because the big drum industry was generated in America.

Mike, do you ever consider "leasing"drums out to musicians for studio work?

I hear what you're saying about the original calfskins, too. I was "torn" (pun intended) when I was faced with using my old Ludwig Junior bass drum. It has what are considered to be VERY high-quality white calfskins (You can see the front head is centered along the backbone and shoulder blades of the calf). But, the musician in me won out and I have used it on a couple of gigs, already. I realize that, IF I tear those heads, then I will never find equivalent replacements without paying a LOT of money...but I couldn't resist the sound...and the experience of playing them and hearing that voice being used to express music was very rewarding. The sound and feeling of actually using the drums for their intended purpose always wins with me.

I store my drums properly and everything. Most of my kits are set up and ready-to-play. The ones I don't have the room to keep set up are in nice soft bags (Protection Racket) -but, even they are ready to load up and take to the gig if need be.

Drums that get displayed, but not played are more like a form of decoration -nothing wrong with that if you're into looking. History is cool if you are a historian. But, it seems that drummers tend to want to play the drums. I guess I am a combination of all the above, but the drummer in me always wins the day. If I see a drum with the original heads intact, I still want to play it...I just have to be careful and play it gingerly!

P.S. -LOL @ "You don't see luggage on a hearse." Nice ! :)

"Mike, do you ever consider "leasing"drums out to musicians for studio work?"

Hi O-Lugs,

I probably would if there was a demand for them...

Mike Curotto

There is a gentleman named Paolo Sburlatti, from Italy, that has a pretty sizable Ludwig collection. I have his book, Ludwig-Yesterday and Today, 200 pages of drums that make you drool. Paolo took individual pictures of his drum set and snares, then wrote a 1/4 page on each item. Somehow, Paolo has drumsets from Ian Paice (the green and blue one with the airbrushed artwork) and Cozy Powell, 2 Trivolli kits (with lights that work) 100's of snare drums, 20-30 Vistalit kits, a bunch of Buddy Rich kits, Downbeats, Hollywoods, Super Classics, multiple Octa-plus (Octaply?), it's amazing one person owns so much Ludwig/WFL gear.

The Mike Curotto collection is amazing, too, there's an interview with him in the new Classic Drummer magazine. That book is only volume I and only from 1900-1940's! There's a picture of a 1951 Billy Gladstone that looks like it could have been made at Fort Brinks (or King Midas touch it). I can't get over all the engravings on the early snare drums, more classical art than musical instruments.

Even though I hate to answer a question with a question, I will.

How does one know when their collection is "complete?" When they have one of everything??

While I don't collect in the true sense of the word, the reason I do what I do is so that the hoarders don't get it:confused:

LVDC

I guess it's different for everyone. I think a collection is complete when you have one of the best examples of everything....but when you have 2 or 3 of everything that are basically all the same thing, then you are hoarding. And, btw, I don't think that hoarding is necessarily a negative thing. Some people are just more successful at collecting what they want. Some people have a wider spectrum for collecting. Some people have more access to certain caches of drums. Sometimes collectible drums are found in conjunction with a "package deal" for a lot of drums -and extras are inevitable. But, I think "keeping" (as in taking charge of) an excessive amount of stuff is more of an American thing -not exclusively, but more often than not.

That being said, I never really started out to form a collection. That happened after the fact. I really set out to find the right sized kit for a friend's studio...and, in the process, I fell in love with many aspects of drums that I had never anticipated...so it might be likely that it will continue to evolve that way. Who knows?...pretty soon, I might be hoarding drums of my own! :o

Maybe the question pertains to the amount of collectors verses the amount of collectible drums available. Will the finite amount of collectible drums reach its zenith one day and basically all become collected? Will different drums become collectible that are not collectible now -thus expanding the realm of collectibility?

When the current collectors pass away and their drums are left to the heirs, will the heirs sell the drums and kick-start the resources for the collectors again?

Theories?

It also just occured to me that collecting drums is a relatively new thing....isn't it? I certainly was unaware of drum collections when I was growing up. I wonder when the collecting-"craze" really kicked in....the late 80's...maybe?

Fender guitars were another example of something that didn't used to be collectible. When did that craze kick in?