Same shell, but different lug count. The Pioneer were less expernsive new, and continue to command less than a jazzfest, all things being equal.

The Jazzfests are more coveted between the two series. You can get a little finer tuning and higher tuning with the Jazzfest, IMO. Nothing wrong with the Pioneer though, as it is a nice drum.

6 lug drums go for much less than 8 lugs.

Thanks for the responses. So I guess I was thinking correctly.

Did they each come with the same "fixins" (IE muffler, strainer, butt plate)?

Did a Pioneer or a Jazz Fest come with a certain kit? In other words, if a kit came with a matching snare, which would it have been? Did it depend on the configuration (sizes) of the kit purchased?

I know there are still a fair amount of both types out there. What is a fair price for each, assuming good, playing condition (but not collector's quality)? I know it depends on the finish, but lets say a standard finish, like Red or Blue sparkle. I'm seeing Pioneers in the $125-$175 range and Jazz Fests $200 and up. Does that seem about right?

Thanks again for your knowledge.

Yes they did come with the same I like your term "fixins". Same strainer, muffler and butt plate.

I believe the pioneers were pretty standard with the Club Date kits.

I haven't been looking hard at Pioneers or Jazz Fests lately so could be off but I would have guessed you would need to add about a hundred bucks to each of your prices.

My experience with Pioneers is with two of them. One of them I hated and one of them is absolutely the best snare drum I've ever played. The worst one was a green sparkle from the pointy B/O badge era. The bearing edges were awful.

The best one IS a 1964 gold sparkle with NOB rims, red felt baseball bat, and perfect bearing edges and snare bed...P-83 can opener throw off... Original Weathermaster heads....It almost plays itself....no finger shock...just butter. Buzz rolls sound like paper tearing....articulates at ultra quiet volumes and ringing rim shot sound. It's everything I've ever loved in a snare drum. Gold sparkle isn't my favorite color, but this one is in perfect shape from being stored in it's suitcase. It must have been a student's drum and the student never stuck with it and put the case in their closet....until I found it 40+ years later.

I played a couple Jazz fest and they are beautiful, too. But I have never owned one and so never really had the time to truly test one out. I think I just got lucky with the Pioneer and I am biased now! ;)

A drum shell off the stack in the factory had equal potential to become either a Pioneer or a Jazz Festival right up to the moment the worker put it on the drilling jig. Then it assumed its new identity depending on whether things were set up to drill for 6 lugs or 8.

I have about 20 Pioneers and a dozen Jazz Fest.

I personally like the Pioneers and have not had any issues tuning them. As always it also depends on the year and condition however I find that the Pioneers can go for about $175 for the duco painted or stained wood. Most of the sparkles go for $200 and up to $350 for the green sparkle wrap. The white pearls go for about $225 and the Blue marine pearl can get around $275-300. The black and blue oyster pearls run about $500 and up. I have been in the hunt for the psychedelic red and have a feeling if one did come on the market would drive $800 - $1000+

A mod orange Pioneer popped up on ebay probably 15-18 years ago. It started at a dollar by folks with no idea what is was other than an old drum they found. Sold for $1200. Oyster Black Pioneers can bring $1000...I paid $600 for one and that was also 15 years ago. The right color will draw out the big money...but then a JF in the same desirable wraps will go for 3-4 times more.