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Ludwig Black Oyster Pearl Downbeat

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Hi Ludwig friends,

I have just bought a great condition kit as above for a very good price. A few faults but I can fix those I think with out affecting originality. The only significant one if no wrap strips on the bass drum hoops. I feel very pleased as this is my holy grail kit. These are very rare in the UK. Please could I have a little advice. What year is the kit? Also where could I possibly get the correct wrap for the hoops. Or what’s the closest. Thanks all.

Posted on 6 years ago
#1
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Just checked on this very site and from the serial numbers seem to be March 1964. Would you knowledgeable folk agree?

Posted on 6 years ago
#2
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576
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Well up In the uk, nice score

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 6 years ago
#3
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From Robzildjian

Just checked on this very site and from the serial numbers seem to be March 1964. Would you knowledgeable folk agree?

Nice looking kit, but I'd quibble with March 1964. March because unless you have date stamps it isn't possible to get down to individual months. 1964 because that's not what the latest research suggests. * edit * Turns out I was misreading the y axis ticks as 10,000 when they are 100,000 so the 1964 is correct.

All the online dating guides are obsolete and somewhat misleading. Including the info here which I presume is where you got your March 1964.

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/serial_numbers.html

The next generation of research is available in a book by Richard E. Gier "Serial Number Based Dating Guides for Vintage Ludwig Drums" published by Rebeats in 2013. According to that book, serial numbers starting 26,000 would be most likely in a range centered around early 1966 plus or minus 6 months. Gier goes to great lengths to incorporate all that earlier published data but adds thousands of new data points.

It turns out that the few 1964 serials above 19,000 are 1 chance in 100 outliers and not part of the general pattern. The explanation comes from the nature of the badge storing and installing process which led to occasional serial number anomalies. Unfortunately the original serial number guides just happened to have 4 of these 1 in a 100 outliers back when the entire serial number timeline was based on just a few examples.

None of which helps you find replacement wrap for your bass drum hoops I'm afraid.

Posted on 6 years ago
#4
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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For hoop inlays you have two choices. The first being Delmar reproduction 60's Oyster Black wrap available from places like Precision Drum. That is actual polyester acetate drum wrap. It is reasonably close but not a perfect match. They do offer precut inlay strips.

The second option would be either Bumwraps or Walopus, both of which offer a version of Oyster Black Pearl which is created from scans of the original wrap. They also offer precut inlay strips.

A third option would be to harvest wrap off a vintage drum and cut inlays from that but that's a rather drastic one. You could also possibly luck into a set of original inlays or hoops with the inlays intact but they are bound to be pricey if you do.

I was in the same boat (missing inlays) many years ago when I bought my first OBP set and actually have replacement inlay strips from Precision on one of my Oyster Black sets. They look ok but are not a perfect match to the original. I purchased them nearly 20 years ago so perhaps the newer batches are a bit closer of a match. However of late I have considered replacing them with ones from BumWrap because I think they would be a better match.

Samples are available from each of these places to make up your own mind as to what would work best for you.

As mentioned above the online serial number tables are inaccurate. I wish they'd either delete them or correct them. Particularly the one on Ludwig's site which they simply copied from another source but that people assume must be correct since it is Ludwig (Ludwig kept no records of serial number back in the day).

Posted on 6 years ago
#5
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From zenstat

Nice looking kit, but I'd quibble with March 1964. March because unless you have date stamps it isn't possible to get down to individual months. 1964 because that's not what the latest research suggests. All the online dating guides are obsolete and somewhat misleading. Including the info here which I presume is where you got your March 1964.http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/serial_numbers.htmlThe next generation of research is available in a book by Richard E. Gier "Serial Number Based Dating Guides for Vintage Ludwig Drums" published by Rebeats in 2013. According to that book, serial numbers starting 26,000 would be most likely in a range centered around early 1966 plus or minus 6 months. Gier goes to great lengths to incorporate all that earlier published data but adds thousands of new data points. It turns out that the few 1964 serials above 19,000 are 1 chance in 100 outliers and not part of the general pattern. The explanation comes from the nature of the badge storing and installing process which led to occasional serial number anomalies. Unfortunately the original serial number guides just happened to have 4 of these 1 in a 100 outliers back when the entire serial number timeline was based on just a few examples.None of which helps you find replacement wrap for your bass drum hoops I'm afraid.

I think that zenstat meant to say that the serial numbers in the 26000 range are from early 1964 +/- 6 months. I very much agree that down-to-the-month precision is not supportable when one only has a serial number and no date stamp. There are many issues with the individual reports of serial number/date stamp combinations provided in the serial number date guides which are included in vintagedrumguide.com's site. There are also issues with how these tables have been interpreted and misinterpreted through the years. In my dating guide I discuss the underlying data from these tables and some of the issues which exist with the accuracy and precision of the information. In particular, the Vintage Drum Center examples are hand-picked to present a fairly orderly progression of serial numbers over time and fail to demonstrate the amount of variation which exists between serial numbers and date stamps. Further, the Ludwigdrummer table inserts a January 1 date when only the year was known. That impacts the validity of the date estimates one makes when they are relying on January dates which are not from January, but may be from any time in the year. However, the entries in that table, if the years are even accurate, start to show the amount of variation that one can expect to encounter with Ludwig's serial number/date stamp relationship. This variation is not immediately apparent in the Vintage Drum Center's chart.

Please be cautioned about using these tables without knowledge of their underlying composition and flaws. Their original authors each warned their readers that variations existed and precise estimates were not possible, but those warnings are ignored when just the tables are presented and used without proper context and understanding of their limitations.

Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Posted on 6 years ago
#6
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This is very helpful thank you. So I guess we are saying the kit is probably 1964 plus or minus 6 months. It has the very early tom mounts if that helps at all. That lines up with what the previous owner told me. The original buyer from new he said and I believe him. Though he said his memory wasn’t that clear.

Posted on 6 years ago
#7
Guest
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From KCDrumDad

I think that zenstat meant to say that the serial numbers in the 26000 range are from early 1964 +/- 6 months.

Rick spotted that I misread the number of zeros on the vertical scale of his graphs. I was using 260,000 as if it were 26,000. Time for new reading glasses methinks. So yes, 1964 +/- 6 months.

Posted on 6 years ago
#8
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Congrats on the new kit! I was fortunate to get a hold of my holy grail kit, a '65 Ludwig Super Classic in oyster black pearl, late this past summer. It's strange because for the first time I can remember, I no longer covet other kits I see and I've stopped actively looking for new kits to consider.

Posted on 6 years ago
#9
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Yes I know the feeling. Not so much point in looking for other kits once you have the one you were really looking for. Any pictures of your ‘65 you are willing to share? It would be nice to see it.

Posted on 6 years ago
#10
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