Well, the black panther set is an ebay listing and I cannot see it in person. I've heard of citrus mod though, it's a cool wrap. All those crazy looking wraps are awesome. mod orange, psychedelic red...

What would the shells be on the Classic that I'm looking at? and what's the difference between a jazz festival snare and the one with the kit I'm looking at?

Also, why are the hoops blue...? It says 100% original, but I am unnaware of any blue hoops from the factory- haha. I'm also wondering about the clear reso. and in the last picture, what's with the bass drum lugs?

Thanks for all the help.

Okay....I apologize. I finally looked (at length) at the Ebay auction for the second blue sparkle kit.

DON'T BUY THAT KIT!!!

Read the feedback comments from the last few months. I know who this person is....on Ebay, anyway. I sold some lugs to him/her.

The two bass drum tension rods are also not original. Regarding the blue painted hoops. Normally, I would suggest that they might, in fact, be original...However, realizing who the seller is makes me think they might say anything.

I would highly suggest to steer away from this deal!

BTW...The Jazz Festival is a wood drum with 8 lugs. I forget what the 6-lug drum was called. Both are great sounding models -usually. The Jazz Fest is more valuable to collectors. The 6-lug drums were often used as "student" snare drums (The ones that came in the old suitcases with a snare stand, etc.)

hmmm.... I looked at all that person's recent feedback, and I think you're definately right that they'd say anything. I don't consider the tension rods a big deal because they're easily replaceable. Seeing as how this person would, indeed, say anything they want, I can see how you doubt that the hoops are original. The replies left on bad feedbacks are RIDICULOUS.

"Reply by oldieswoman-guitar60: true watch'smissing part,after full refund, u still sayt i'm dishonest? SUCKER"

................

I might pass this one up. I'm not sure, though. The fact that I could get the drums in person is a plus. On the other hand, I'd rather give my money to an honest person, and not have to look for new tension rods and stuff.

I'm now looking at the first one. It looks pretty good, and the more I look at supraphonics- the more I like them. The snare rash and the seam on the floor tom aren't too bad. Considering I'm only 16 and I'm lucky to be getting vintage Ludwigs in the first place, I think I can deal with that ; )

Is it true that blue sparkle is one of the most collectable of the common wraps and that blue sparkle wrapped kits go for a couple 100$ more? If I could get another color wrap for cheaper, that's cool.

How about this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7396692119&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

At first I thought the white on the bass was a missing fragment of wrap, now I see it's probably just a strip of muffling coming out. The description's pretty brief, I'd email a bunch.

or maybe a rogers? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7397276829&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Blue sparkle is probably THE most common sparkle finish. As common as it is, though, it's also a very beautiful and "nostalgic" color for a lot of people.

MOST of the blue sparkle kits I have seen have all had black hoops with the matching blue sparkle inlay strip. However, I know that Ludwig also did blue painted hoops on blue/silver Duco finished bass drums.

The person buys parts and possibly "stitches" different drums together to make a complete kit. The examples he uses for the badge numbers is completely confusing. I have never seen serial numbers like that!

There are great vintage Ludwig kits coming up for auction all the time.

After reading the feedback, in addition to the negative feedback he/she has received, they also received many "neutral" feedbacks with critical remarks. This is one of the worst seller-records I have ever seen. I would back away from this one for sure. That's my 2 cents.

Yeah I think I'll stay away from that one.

Now I'm looking at the first blue sparkle kit, and the two I posted above.

I've seen every kit in and out of ebay for the past couple months, it sure is taking patience.

what does "COB" mean when describing a snare?

http://www.vintagesnaredrums.com/terms.html

David

Thanks.

Could someone tell me about the various shells that ludwig used in the 60's? How did their sound vary?

I have no idea what shells are on these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7396565891&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

How can I tell? Should I care?

Ludwig's famous vintage shells are made by laying out a thin veneer of maple, a thicker ply of poplar wood and then another thin veneer of either maple or real mahogany. Finally, if it was a wrapped finish (like a blue sparkle, for example), then that, too would be glued to form a "sandwich" so-to-speak. Then, the sandwich would be steamed and bent around a form to form a shell. The ends were joined using a scarf joint and part of the wrapped finish was actually tucked inside the scarf joint as a result. Then, lastly, two solid maple reinforcement rings were fitted and glued to the inside of the shell at the ends to provide both strength to the shell but also to make a nice fat area for the roundover bearing edges. (Most new drums today have sharp bearing edges.) There are good things about both, but the vintage Ludwig have a tone that's really nice and unique. The best drumheads to use on vintage Ludwig drums are Remo coated Ambassadors

Mostly until the very end of the 60's , Ludwig painted the insides of the shells with white paint. But at the end of the 60's, they started leaving the interiors clear maple and the wrap was no longer tucked inside the scarf joint.

Just for your information, the second blue sparkle kit is not a complete and original kit. The corrct configuration shouldbe 13/16/22 -not 20" bass drum. What that kit is is part of a kit and then part of at least one other kit. They do look like good drums, though. The long-term value as a collectible is not really there, so the price that it's at now is about the most I would want to pay for a pieced-together kit -strictly speaking as a collector. You are only 16, though, so you probably aren't as concerned with that...:)

Be patient and the right kit will turn up. I'll keep my eyes out on Ebay, too.

Thanks! You guys have been really helpful. Whenever I'm strongly considering a kit, I'll ask about it on here before I send out $1000+.

One more thing. How does the sound differ with the mahogony inner ply and the maple inner ply? and does the white inside sound different from the clear inside? (i doubt it, but maybe it's more than just paint...)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7396692119&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

eh? These look great to me. I'm gonna email the seller.

There really wasn't much difference, in terms of sound with Ludwig's 60's shells. Sometimes, the maple veneer went on the inside...Sometimes it went on the outside....Sometimes both inner and outer veneers were maple...Sometime both inner and outer veneers were mahogany. Most of the 60's Ludwig used a white paint to seal the interiors of the shells against moisture (like a humid environment) and also to cover up blemishes that might have been present in the veneer.

People refer to these shells as Ludwig "3-ply" shells.

I'm not sure of the exact date, but eventually Ludwig stopped making their shells the "3-ply" way and started using some other woods and methods of construction.

The red drums look pretty nice. Of course you realize that it's just the three drums with no hardware like stands, pedals, etc. On many occasions, it is possible to find a nice vintage Ludwig kit with all the original hardware, too.

I know you are itching to get a kit, but the trick to getting a vintage kit is to get one as complete as you can. And, when and if you score a nice kit, please make sure to be a good steward of it and take exceptional care of the drums. Never get lazy and lose the discipline of taking care of your "axe" -especially if it's a clean vintage one. They are much more special since they are no longer made the same way.

Vintage drums sound great but they also require an extra bit of care and "nice treatment" -because if an important part breaks, replacement parts are not always something you can find quickly. It usually means you have to go back to Ebay again and play the waiting game for the right replacement part(s) to come along.

You seem to be coming at this the right way, though. It's always better to collect as much information as possible before jumping into the vintage drum world! Peace.