They were using the new handles in 58; I don't know when they made the switch, but grey paint 6-ply with new handles and no tag is late-50's, early-60's; I'm not sure you can be more exact than that. What kind of hoops are on the drums - if cast they are probably later in that time range (early 60's); if stick-choppers they are earlier (late 50's).

Maybe you're right about the floor tom, but it sounds more like a Slingerland - is it grey painted inside like the others? I assume the lugs are the same - take off a lug to see if there is evidence of a different lug ever being used. Does it have the RB attached with a pin? Possible that Gretsch ran out of their own shells and bought a couple from some competitor, but much more likely that someone added a floor tom to their set later (which happened a *lot*) or maybe even at the music store. This kind of stuff wasn't such a big deal back then.

Thanks for the info - this is my set, they are me, my identity - I bought them w/K's for $125 in 1972. I still have all of it, except for a horrible AZ 22" that sounded somewhere between a train and a lawn mower. I have the original old K hats and 17" K whatever you want to call it - ride, crash... it's my Holy Grail cymbal. Stamp dates the K's to 50's.

The floor tom: I've had it apart and it matches the set in every way except for the reinforcing hoops. Everything about the shell, except for the hoops, screams Jasper. The RB badge is attached with a pin, and the paint, everything, matches the rest of the set identically. I have Slingerland drums and it resembles a Slinger in no way. When you remove a lug they fit tight in the holes like the rest of the kit. From the bearing edge, except for the reinforcing hoops, you can see the wood plies are the same as the rest of the set.

The set has COB cast hoops and the kick still had the front calf head on it.

When I bought them in 1972 they looked really old at the time, it's hard to believe they would have been only 10 years old then - I've never seen pearl that cracked and faded in 10 years, so I always guessed they were late 50's to make them at least 15 years old when I got them.

Another note is that when I recovered the drums in (A.F.Blaemire supplied!) pearl the floor tom looked identical to the other drums when stripped - you could have sanded them and varnished them and the drums would have matched perfectly.

Are you sure? The drums in the 1958 catalog here --

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/gretsch_finishes.html

-- still have the old-style T-rods. I wonder if 1958 was a transition year.

Mastro: what style floor tom leg mounts do you have? The '58 catalog shows Gladstone-style two-post leg mounts, whereas I believe they were using diamond plate leg mounts (which match the bass drum cymbal mounts) by the early 60s.

It's got diamond plates.

The only thing that comes to mind is that Gretsch was kind of disorganized, the company always had a "dysfunctional family feel". It wouldn't surprise me if they were selling one style and at the same time using a pic from 5 or more years before in their catalog. I'm not sure if you really could go by the catalogs.

Zounds! I've been trying to date my RB kit ever since I bought it 15 years ago, and when I saw that it was a perfect match for the Name Band Midnight Pearl set in the '58 catalog, I thought I'd had it nailed. Now, I'm not so sure.

That said, there seem to be a few distinguishing features: silver shells but no tags, Gladstone floor tom leg mounts, old-style bass drum T-rods, stick-chopper rims. I think that puts it around the late 50s, but I'm learning to accept that I just might never know. :)

Funny, that's the same set/color as mine!

There is someone out there that knows.

There's a music store here in Honolulu called Harry's Music, a family owned store. There's a guy there that knows every pop song because he was in the store when it was a hit and he sold it. I think he was there when Elvis broke the scene. You can name a song and he can pretty well tell you it's history, the label it was on and the month it came out.

My guess is that in some dinky music store (with creaky wooden floors just like Harry's) there's a guy who knows stuff like this about Gretsch drums because he was there.

Also, let's say the '58 catalog was printed and put together in '57, and the pics were only a year old, well then the pics would be '56 drums.

Well, you can never really be sure of anything, but I have a Gretsch BMP set that I bought from the original owner who told me he bought them new in 1958 (and he was totally with it and into his drums - not a pro musician but he had friends who were and he played with them for many years). They are a bit earlier than the ones MastroSnare has, because his have cast hoops, and mine have stick-chopper double-flanges except for the snare drum which has stick-chopper cast hoops. Other than that they sound the same as his (new style t-rods, no tags, grey paint).

Its certainly possible 58 was a transition year for the T-rods and they used both, but based on what I was told they did have the new ones in 1958.

And it sounds like section2's are from a bit earlier than 1958 (or maybe 1958) since he has the earlier FT leg mounts.

One final thing to check - does the diamond mount for FT legs or BD cymbal have the two screws exposed? The exposed screws are earlier and my 1958 set has the exposed screws. section2's set should definitely have the two screws on the BD cymbal mount. I don't know when the hidden screw mount started to be used but it would also push the date of MastroSnare's towards the early 60's and away from late 50's if he has the hidden screw mounts.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the two screws exposed" (so I'm gathering mine don't).

My diamond plates are attached to the drums by two small screws that are put on from inside the drum, like lugs are mounted. The screws go into "dead end" holes and can't be seen from the outside of the drum.

I'm gathering that you're saying there were earlier ones that had screws that were drilled all the way through.

I sure appreciate all this and it doesn't sound like I'm alone in wondering when they were "born".

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