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George Way Casino Aristocrat

Posts: 3165 Threads: 969

THANKS to all for taking the time to have a look at my snare and for all the positive feedback as well as the running discussion of the drum!Clapping Happy2

I truly appreciate it all!

jegellman: Your post motivated me to do a little extra research, which is always a good thing. I've been in contact with several GW/Camco experts & and have also continued reading any publication I can find on both of these companies to obtain as much information as possible. Still, questions seem to remain.

You stated that "I was told that George Way snare drums did NOT come with keyholders" and "that was included later (only as) a CAMCO thing." From what I've researched I believe that you are correct. Harry Cangany in his publication, "The Great American Drums And The Companies That Made Them, 1920-1969" states that "this holder was never on the Way Models."

You also asked whether the inside of the shell shows any signs of drilling around the keyhole or re-installation of the badge? The answer to both of those questions is definitely NO. I'm convinced that the key holder as well as the badge on this drum are both original components.

Here's some additional information I've found:

According to John Aldridge, as stated on page 44 of his publication, "Guide to Vintage Drums", the Casino Aristocrat model (4.5 x 14) was added to the G.W. Aristocrat line in 1961. The Casino Aristocrat is shown in the 1961 G.W. catalog but NOT in the 1961 Camco catalog. It IS shown in the 1962 Camco catalog with the identical G.W. catalog description .

I also noticed that in the aforementioned Harry Cangany publication there is no mention of the Casino Aristocrat Model snare drum in the George Way section. However, Mr. Cangany does list the Casino Aristocrat Model snare drum in the Camco Drum Company section of the publication.

Another interesting little fact I discovered is that the 1961 Camco catalog shows Camco toms with G.W. badges installed. The same Camco catalog also has pics of the identical key holder and tone control that happen to be installed on my drum.

I'm starting to believe that mine might possibly be a GW/Camco "hybrid." I say this because the drum was manufactured in 1961, the same year that Camco bought out GW. The drum has its original GW badge but also has the keyholder & tone control, which are Camco components. The snare side head is also stamped "CAMCO" in black ink. An acquaintance who truly is a GW/Camco expert, mentioned that he had only seen two Casino Aristocrat models in his lifetime -- mine and another that was missing its badge.

I can imagine the possibility that the shell with the original wrap and badge might have been on a shelf when GW transitioned over to Camco and then the keyholder and tone control were factory-installed on it. Who knows?

Regardless of what "really" happened, it's one I definitely plan on keeping! When I get a minute I might start a post on the forum to see if I can find out any additional information.

THANKS AGAIN for "instigating" (LOL) this discussion!

Posted on 14 years ago
#11
Posts: 10714 Threads: 579

From OldSchool

THANKS to all for taking the time to have a look at my snare and for all the positive feedback as well as the running discussion of the drum!Clapping Happy2I truly appreciate it all!jegellman: Your post motivated me to do a little extra research, which is always a good thing. I've been in contact with several GW/Camco experts & and have also continued reading any publication I can find on both of these companies to obtain as much information as possible. Still, questions seem to remain. You stated that "I was told that George Way snare drums did NOT come with keyholders" and "that was included later (only as) a CAMCO thing." From what I've researched I believe that you are correct. Harry Cangany in his publication, "The Great American Drums And The Companies That Made Them, 1920-1969" states that "this holder was never on the Way Models."You also asked whether the inside of the shell shows any signs of drilling around the keyhole or re-installation of the badge? The answer to both of those questions is definitely NO. I'm convinced that the key holder as well as the badge on this drum are both original components.Here's some additional information I've found:According to John Aldridge, as stated on page 44 of his publication, "Guide to Vintage Drums", the Casino Aristocrat model (4.5 x 14) was added to the G.W. Aristocrat line in 1961. The Casino Aristocrat is shown in the 1961 G.W. catalog but NOT in the 1961 Camco catalog. It IS shown in the 1962 Camco catalog with the identical G.W. catalog description .I also noticed that in the aforementioned Harry Cangany publication there is no mention of the Casino Aristocrat Model snare drum in the George Way section. However, Mr. Cangany does list the Casino Aristocrat Model snare drum in the Camco Drum Company section of the publication.Another interesting little fact I discovered is that the 1961 Camco catalog shows Camco toms with G.W. badges installed. The same Camco catalog also has pics of the identical key holder and tone control that happen to be installed on my drum.I'm starting to believe that mine might possibly be a GW/Camco "hybrid." I say this because the drum was manufactured in 1961, the same year that Camco bought out GW. The drum has its original GW badge but also has the keyholder & tone control, which are Camco components. The snare side head is also stamped "CAMCO" in black ink. An acquaintance who truly is a GW/Camco expert, mentioned that he had only seen two Casino Aristocrat models in his lifetime -- mine and another that was missing its badge.I can imagine the possibility that the shell with the original wrap and badge might have been on a shelf when GW transitioned over to Camco and then the keyholder and tone control were factory-installed on it. Who knows? Regardless of what "really" happened, it's one I definitely plan on keeping! When I get a minute I might start a post on the forum to see if I can find out any additional information.THANKS AGAIN for "instigating" (LOL) this discussion!

oldschool that is definetly a transition drum, i had a bud that sold a gw kit it had a bdp 5x14" snare drum with the same setup and the same year, some bonehead installed yamaha tom mounts on the bass and toms UGH!!

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#12
Posts: 156 Threads: 22

Vintagemore: Yeah, I relate... I just got done removing a nasty Pearl throw and butt plate off an LA Camco snare for replacement with Oaklawn originals (closest I could come). Sadly, one day I'll have to have the two extra holes filled, and maybe even have someone clean up the slightly munged re-ring. Nonetheless... I now FINALLY have a blonde LA kit with matching snare... Woo Hoo!

OldSchool: Many thanks for picking up the chase... I read some of the same docs you cited. Especially, thanks for adding to my Camco/Way knowledge base!

Added info: I seem to recall either reading or hearing that the Way/Camco catalogs often did not update their photos/pics to match hardware changes, which unfortunately, makes it tough to rely on them fully.

While I have the attention of some 'like minded' folks (could I be more euphemistic??), does anybody know the whereabouts of any George Way lug pegs? Or, perhaps somebody knows somebody with a Way style strainer they'd be willing to part with? Thought I'd check....


- Current restoration Project: Geo Way 5 piece
- 60's Oaklawn Walnut Camco kit (12/12/14/20) matching Snare (Camco hardware and Paiste black logo 2002s)
- 70's LA Maple Camco kit (12/13/16/22) matching Oaklawn snare (Rogers hardware and Paiste Signatures/Mellow ride)
- 70's Blue Vistalite Ludwig Monster kit (6/8/12/13/14/15/16/18/24) matching snare (all Hercules hardware, all Zidljian shadow logos)
Posted on 14 years ago
#13
Posts: 10714 Threads: 579

From jegellman

Vintagemore: Yeah, I relate... I just got done removing a nasty Pearl throw and butt plate off an LA Camco snare for replacement with Oaklawn originals (closest I could come). Sadly, one day I'll have to have the two extra holes filled, and maybe even have someone clean up the slightly munged re-ring. Nonetheless... I now FINALLY have a blonde LA kit with matching snare... Woo Hoo!OldSchool: Many thanks for picking up the chase... I read some of the same docs you cited. Especially, thanks for adding to my Camco/Way knowledge base!Added info: I seem to recall either reading or hearing that the Way/Camco catalogs often did not update their photos/pics to match hardware changes, which unfortunately, makes it tough to rely on them fully.While I have the attention of some 'like minded' folks (could I be more euphemistic??), does anybody know the whereabouts of any George Way lug pegs? Or, perhaps somebody knows somebody with a Way style strainer they'd be willing to part with? Thought I'd check....

Post the parts you need in the wanted to buy section, you may get a reply??

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#14
Posts: 156 Threads: 22

Doh!

And thanks (and for not commenting on the neon "Newb" sign currently lodged on my forehead)!

Jeff


- Current restoration Project: Geo Way 5 piece
- 60's Oaklawn Walnut Camco kit (12/12/14/20) matching Snare (Camco hardware and Paiste black logo 2002s)
- 70's LA Maple Camco kit (12/13/16/22) matching Oaklawn snare (Rogers hardware and Paiste Signatures/Mellow ride)
- 70's Blue Vistalite Ludwig Monster kit (6/8/12/13/14/15/16/18/24) matching snare (all Hercules hardware, all Zidljian shadow logos)
Posted on 14 years ago
#15
Posts: 10714 Threads: 579

From jegellman

Doh!And thanks (and for not commenting on the neon "Newb" sign currently lodged on my forehead)!Jeff

WelcomeCool1Clapping Happy2 Hey we all start that way!! come on in!!

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#16
Posts: 662 Threads: 33

I think it's all been said except that I'm very, very jealous and you're a very lucky man.

And don't take everything Harry Cangany says about Camco in his book as 100% correct - he has the oval badge from 1962 (1969 is closer) and claims they were all painted white inside (lacquer finishes had clear lacquer finishes inside).

Posted on 14 years ago
#17
Posts: 3165 Threads: 969

From Antipodes

I think it's all been said except that I'm very, very jealous and you're a very lucky man.And don't take everything Harry Cangany says about Camco in his book as 100% correct - he has the oval badge from 1962 (1969 is closer) and claims they were all painted white inside (lacquer finishes had clear lacquer finishes inside).

THANKS for the input!

Posted on 14 years ago
#18
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