Good ideas all. The gel dried on the test patch, it looked great, the construction paper contracted though; the patch had a curve from the contraction which when I went to flatten it out, there was a cracking sound and a section of Dura Lar had detached from the gel/glitter. Today I popped the whole piece of Dura Lar off there, and what remains is a pretty smooth shiny surface of the gel. I have pics but haven't been able to get them off the cell phone yet lol...

This remains a tough nut to crack. I guess the gel doesn't bond to the Dura Lar quite as well as hoped. It's not too surprising as there's nothing to grab on such a shiny surface. Possible two-stage process? Substitute wax paper for the top sheet initially, get a smooth glitter-infused surface/layer on a backing of some sort, apply that to the shell and then use the Krylon to affix the Dura Lar to the gel-wrapped shell?

I'm not even thinking of giving up; if it turns out that the best process doesn't allow for shipping sheets of wrap, I don't care about that so much as getting it to where anyone can do this with reasonably easy to source materials. Because the actual glass glitter itself looks *amazing*. Just gotta find the best combo of materials and procedure.

Jeff makes a good point about the lacquer cracking; it could happen right when you're wrapping it around the shell, or even when you go to pick it up the first time. The idea of embedding the glitter in a wet layer of some sort of clear-drying lacquer or gel also has the problem that you would have to sprinkle the glitter into the gel perfectly evenly, as opposed to dumping it *on* a surface and then rubbing off the excess. Jaghog's idea of putting the glitter right into a mixture and spraying it on sounds workable and would eliminate the even-distribution issue. It does require having the right gun etc which I don't have...and again we need a substance that will dry into a clear, flexible yet reasonably robust sheet. At that point you could add a backing sheet, as long as the material used does not contract.

As for Mylar instead of Dura Lar, it could be better, I have no Mylar to test at the moment. I *think* the Dura Lar is a little more flexible, and it is designed for long lasting art protection....and available down the street from me....:)

Mitch

Here's the only pic that came out in focus. This is before I popped the Dura Lar off the patch.

You can see that I need to make this work! :)

Mitch

That looks great!

looks great.

keep us posted.

by the way, in the proces as I suggested you actually dump the glitter on wet lacquer and remove the excess.

see the hoop inlays on this set?

http://vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=50393

those inlays are:

step 1. red paint on acid free paper.

step 2. apply 1 reasonably thock layer of laquer

step 3. dump glitter on wet layer of laquer

step 4. remove excess

step 5. allow to dry

step 6 several layers of laquer

ready

With these inlays I had no issue whatsoever with cracking

not even when the laquer was 2 months dry.

That's extremely helpful information, thank you. So you are using the lacquer itself for the final outer shiny surface? No need for it to stick to any kind of sheet, Mylar, Dura Lar or anything; it just needs to stick to the acid-free, painted paper base, which it can be counted on to do admirably.

If I still want to use a top sheet, I should experiment with the lacquer and see how well, if at all, it sticks to the Dur Lar. But it's good to know that some lacquers, at least, will not crack. I imagine you also simply did not use it "too thick", and that helped prevent cracking.

I just realized I can do this test without any glitter - simply coat a patch of Dura Lar with lacquer, let dry, and bend...

Mitch

yes of course.

with the inlays, the layer of laquer was pretty thick (1 mm. or so), so thicknes is not an issue. I used: https://www.bestel-verf.nl/product/1038/Nelf_Nelfalin_XT_Hoogglans_Blank_lak_voor_buiten.html

I guess improtant factors are:

-kind of laquer (go to an expert paint shop, I guess laquers for outside paint jobs are supposed to be a little flexible because wood and metal swell up or shrinck under weather conditions)

-age of layer, I can imagine that over years laquer loses its flexibility, so I'd not advice making sheets of wrap, stack them flat for years and then use them on a shell.

but if you'll use them with in a few month the're will be little problem.

be sure to use backing material that allows the laquer to dry, like fabric.

another suggestion: I'd take a completely flat and smooth surface (f.i. a sheet of glass) lay the mylar film on it and sand it with grit 400 or so. Off course it will get matte, but that effect will disappear when you apply the laquer. This way the paint will bond much better to the plastic.

The new water base lac has a lot of flex

Water/solvent based is a big issue. Clearly the process should employ one or the other exclusively [probably water based], until the backing is in place, and then you could use solvent based contact cement to affix it to the shell. The backing would protect the water based elements from the solvent. OTOH if the backing is porous to allow drying, it wouldn't protect anything lol...more studies are needed...I do know that one of my early tests for the gold sparkle melted off the Dura Lar with the application of solvent based contact cement.

I like the idea of roughing the back of the top sheet - give whatever adhesive is used something to grab, and yes it would revert to clear with the application of the clear adhesive.

Here's the bottom line with backing - at the point where you've got glitter glued to the top sheet, you can flop it around with only minor loss of glitter that's still loose; as soon as you introduce a backing to which the glitter/adhesive combo sticks ~better than it sticks to the top sheet~ the glitter/adhesive combo want to divorce from the top sheet when you start bending it. They are two separate sheets of different material, they flex differently, and the one with the better bond "wins" the glitter/adhesive combo.

Still I am determined to see if the top sheet approach can work. It will be a matter of the right adhesive and backing material, and also as bartw mentions, using the product sooner rather than later - get er on there! I haven't been testing the last few days as there has been high humidity - no need to add that to the mix. I wish I had more $$ for these tests but I guarantee this thread will close with my Club Dates wrapped in gorgeous silver glass glitter!

Mitch

hmmm, somehow I think alkyd-resin based paint (the normal house paint you can make thinner with white spirit [not with thinner, that's another story, that's usual car-paint]) will stick fairly well on the transparent film, specially if you sand it. Better than water based paint I guess.

have you considered not using a backing at all and use double sided tape all around the shell (so won't have to use contact cement)?

Double-sided tape would be brilliant, used as you suggest or as a backing, with one side not peeled, and shipped like that. I think it would "sink" nicely "into" the glitter for an excellent bond. Here's a link to a place where you can get it 600mm in width! that's wide enough to cover a 16" floor tom with no lateral seams...

http://www.tapes-direct.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=882

Way expensive though. I'll look into alkyd resin - a nice big can shouldn't be too cost prohibitive. Meanwhile today [soon as I quit typing] I'm going to go sand a patch of the Dura Lar and test it with the Krylon Triple Thick, humidity be damned! When that's dry I'll decide what backing to test next, probably light cotton or something I researched last night - "nonwoven polypropylene primary backing (perforated fiber fleece)" - https://keepitsample.wordpress.com/technical-facts/

Now, please pardon my ignorance - the Krylon glaze can says clean with "paint thinner". What does that make the glaze, in terms of lacquer etc....?

Mitch