I have to say sound is so subjective in many cases. We should all be able to pick out bad heads and poorly tuned drums, and a change of heads can really change the sound of any set.

So basically it seams a lot of people are trying to find newly made drums that sound like the vintage counterpart. I think in many cases just sitting behind a vintage set gives a different feeling then behind a new set. The same goes for other instruments and cars.

There is nothing like a 60's muscle car. It can't be duplicated in regards to the feel and over all affect a car like that has.

Drums to me are the same way. I have a 2004 set of Premiers that are so well built and sound amazing, but something draws me into sitting behind my 70's Slingerland and it is a different feeling all together.

If the music dictates a newer sound I would probably use newer drums to achieve that. If the music is from the 60's then I would use the drums for that. To try and get an old set to sound new and a new set to sound old, is it really worth it.

I guess also many people do not have the luxury to have more then one set so with that said I can understand trying to find the best balance between the styles of music you are playing.

In all cases I would probably find a local custom builder that can sit with you and show you the differences and what they can do to find that balance for the music you are playing. So much is available out there, just take your time and ask lots of questions. There are some really amazing builders that know their woods and the sounds they achieve.

Sorry, this is more of a general post and not necessarily for the topic currently being discussed.

Thanks

David

Yes Sir Exactly!! I fully agree!!

I pretty much realized that trying to emulate someone elses sound is pretty lame anyway. Creating your own sound is far better. For me, the set will for sure fit the type of music I play, our band plays zeppelin, acdc, etc. The new set can easily be tuned to fit, even though its not old. With drums of that size, it will sound ,meaty, loud, and mean. Which is what I need. So it can compete with the ****ing super leads(vintage) that the guitarists use, and the acoutsic bass amp. Trying to tune to bonhams sound in the end isnt really gonna work, because our band isnt like a zeppelin cover band or anything like that, we have our own sound and I should probably tune to fit our sound, not tune to fit zeppelin!

Also, wouldn't the drums that Bonham used in those great old Zep recordings and concerts have been new or new'ish at that time? Not trying to shoot down the "old wood sounds good" theory, but unless he was using 30 + year old drums, then the sound was technically "new wood". Correct?

Plus most new drums (maybe not the reissue Ludwigs) have newer style bearing edges. That in conjunction with modern heads and shell construction would also contribute to the "modern" sound, I imagine.

Just thinking out loud here...

Yes, that does make sense, I'm sure a builder could go into more detail about old growth and new growth wood and what was being used in the 60's and 70's

It is funny, because I have seen so many vintage drums with the worst bearing edges and very inconsistent methods of making them the way they were.

I have an employee whose cousin is in a Beatles band and they copy everything exactly down to the finest detail. That's cool since that is their gig and that is what they do.

I have another friend that loves Pink Floyd and he created an album which he felt would have been the next progression of the Dark Side of The Moon. That is cool also and that is what they do.

I have other friends that just do original stuff with their own sound and other friends that play cover tunes, they are all making music in their own way.

So you are correct ledzeppelin1989 make the music that is best for the music and the band you are in. Your drums at that time are the sound you have and I think with the new Ludwigs you will be happy and the music will be what it is for you and the band for your time together.

What kind of tangent did I just go on...

Violin

David

My understanding of "good wood" in regards to vintage drums is related to how it used to be air-dried and that the slower process involved with air drying the wood meant that the cells would stay intact and be "spongier" and "lighter" "more air-spaces" in structure. When manufacturing started speeding up the drying process by using kilns, the higher temps caused the cells within the wood to explode and thus changed the characteristics of the wood and the sound.

Also, another thing to consider is that the old Ludwig 3-ply shells were laid up in a straight plank, wrap and all, and then steambent into a cylindrical shape and glued so that the wrap was tucked into the joint. I have been told that this bending process created tension in the wood that isn't present in modern shells. Is it good? bad? Who's to say? But, the answer to the original question is that the vintage shells are most definitely different than the new ones that are being used to make "authentic re-issue" kits. In most cases, these re-issue kits only resemble their original counterparts on the surface. Beyond that, though, there are lots of differences.

A great example of this is Kent Drums. I have several and they range from excellent to horrible (bearing edges, that is).

I was going to add that, my low-buck import Cortley drums (70's or early 80's I think) sound more like the drums of old, than the drums of new. Not suggesting that they sound exactly like a specific drum makers drum, but more that mellow/warm vintage tone. They have rounded bearing edges (more like the old days).

New drums, especially the high dollar stuff, sound like cannon's to me, compared to vintage stuff. Sharp bearing edges and dense maple shells must comtribute to that sound... my $0.02 :)

RIGHT!!!!....Sharp edges= attack,round edges=less cutting,more shell sound.I dont understand the fixation with loud,cutting,sharp sounds.

I dont know, they dont really sound like "cannons" per se, but, bonhams drums were kinda like big booming cannons. Listen to his bass drum! The thing just straight kicks you in the face. Same with those floors. He had warm tone, but I'd compare his drums to cannons. He didnt have that studio "warm" tone that certain recorded drums have, and thats what contributed to part of his deal. I think any drums of the sizes that he used are not gonna sound sharp, regardless of the construction. Wen you get into smaller drums, thats where the problems lie, which is why I completely hate small drums.

Certainly drum size is a factor, as is tuning, muffling (or not muffling), etc... Another thing to remember is that Bonham's sound was also a product of the recording process/environment. Things like recording the drums in a large, stone hallway (in Jimmy Page's castle-like home), use of room mic's to capture the harsh boominess a stone room would produce, etc... Then there's drum treatment as well. I've heard tales that they experimented with lining the inside of Bonham's kick with tin foil (or similar) to get more projection, as well as other "crazy" things to alter the natural sound of the drums.

Finally, take those recorded tracks and use some serious compression in the right places/amounts, and you get a pretty powerful drum sound from any sized kit. Of course, trying this with a Cocktail kit wouldn't produce the same results :)