No, that's just where the cutting tool missed some of the inner portion of the depression during the lathing process. Zildjian would never allow for any slag in their bronze. They're careful to use only the purist copper and tin in the melt when they make those ingots.

Forgot to mention that it could be some porosity in the metal that showed up after lathing and then tried to smash some of it closed. Not sure. I often wonder if this porosity is what people refer to as flea bites.

Flea bites are edge dings.

That's interesting.. The "CRASH" label on the cymbal corresponds with an early 60s ink stamp (Thinner font than the later, late 60s early 70s ink stamps which are a fatter font).

Your evidence (the photo of the ink stamp, and the absence of a brilliant finish) does support your contention that these were produce prior to Zildjian's production of the then-new Brilliant line which had the Constantinople stamp on them.

The only other detail of a question I have is the star and crescent moon aspect of it. K. Zildjian Istanbul was obviously still putting their cymbals out into the 70s with the crescent and star. I'm not seeing the court ruling that includes the trademark star and crescent as being usable by A. Zildjian, but maybe they didn't need permission for that.

I don't think the star and crescent symbols are important as far as trademark the law in concerned. The primary thing is the name itself. You'll notice that in those legal statements the names involved were mentioned, but any symbolic parts of these trademarks, if any, were referred to simply as an "ornate device".

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/cymbalexamples/A.jpg[/img]

Compare this original A. Zildjian & Cie. trademark to the version that Avedis Zildjian used. You'll notice that not only did they add the star and crescent, but they also dropped the word "trademark".

Sounds way more like a k than an A to me. Dark, great woody stick and beautiful wash. I've heard some trans stamps that came close, but this cymbal is something special.

Cool. Just to clairfy for other readers, the A Zildjian & CIE Trademark was not acquired by Avedis Zildjian until 1968 when Zildjian acquired the K trademarks. Prior to that, the trademark was property of K Zildjian in Istanbul and Gretsch.

I'm not questioning whether it is a 60's cymbal or not. It could have been produced in the 60's and sitting in the vault. But it did not get stamped and leave the factory until 1968 or later. It wouldn't surprise me if they had to stamp some just to register the trademark and then didn't 'ramp up productin' until the 70's when they introduced the Brilliants.

What was your source for that information?

Searching the USPTO shows that Zildjian registered it in 1974 and show first use and first use in commerce for them as January 1, 1970.

Note that they've let the trademark registration lapse on the original A. Zildjian & Cie mark. Just the Vintage trademark is still live.

"A live trademark registration means that the registrant has filed all necessary maintenance documents and the trademark remains viable. A dead trademark registration means that the registrant has not filed the necessary documents and the registration has lapsed. It does not necessarily mean that the trademark owner is no longer using the mark - it's simply not registered"

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4004%3A7ovkm6.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=A+Zildjian+CIE+&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query

Scott

WTF??

I used the link and did the search and only could get results for A. Zildjian & Cie Vintage.

Nothing about the lapsed version, "live" or "dead".

Must be this cheap computer.