I recently bought a set of Downbeat Ludwigs from the 60's. Each drum was originally from another kit so their age varies from '61 to '69. For some reason my 12" tom seems to choke a lot easier than the other drums. I've got coated ambassador batter and clear ambassador resonant.
Does anyone know why or suggest an idea to prevent it? I've attached a link with pictures of the bearing edges of the kit, if anyone thinks this might be problem.
Thanks
Having reread that thread and this post, it seems you are indeed having tuning problems. Always exhaust all options prior to taking any tool to a drum that removes wood. So, check your heads, hoops, tensioning, mounts, angles, etc. There's a lot of stuff to check here. There is another thread that addresses this called "Rail Tom Thump" that you might wish to read for ideas.
[COLOR="DarkRed"]I am gonna respectfully agree AND disagree with McJ.
I agree, try all other options to make it sound right excluding altering the edges.
BUT..if that fails, you gotta alter the edges if your intent is to play them drums...regardless of the kit's 'vintageness'...
see my reply in the other thread....[/COLOR]
Actually, I agree with Jaye (as usual). First, check everything. Then and only then, think about edging it. You gotta play the thing. It's a drum.
I agree and disagree with both of you guys (as per usual..LOL!) its in the tuning....careful tuning with the tom mounted on its mount should get it to sing....it may have to be tuned higher than you are used to but it will get there...just spend some time with it.
That's what I said in the first post. So you DO agree with me. LuddyDude agrees with me...LuddyDude agrees with me...nah nee nah nee nah nah.
Sorry. I'm back in school. I'm not usually that immature. It's hard to remember who's the teacher and who's the student. Excited Race ya to the jungle bars!!!
I recently started to play a 12" and found that it had to be tuned a bit higher than I would usually tune. It's mounted on a RIMS mount. It sings now, though.
I wouldn't mess with the edges. Try different tunings or better yet find someone who has experience tuning vintage drums, pay them if you have to, and let them show you how tune it.
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Here's something else to consider:
Older edges were broader than contemporary edges, so more surface area was in contact with the head, thus giving that 'old-school' sound. More "thwack", less "doooooonnnnnggggg".
BUT...if the edges are buggered, then the edges are buggered...tuning high may make the tom ring more lively....but...you are gonna have to decide if, as a player, you want 'em tuned high.
A good old shell with level, smooth edges usually doesn't dictate it's own tuning...they tend to be pretty flexible if all is copasetic with the shell.
IMHO, I don't like tuning 3-ply re-ringed shells high...I don't think it brings out the best qualities in 'em.
[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkRed"]Here's something else to consider:Older edges were broader than contemporary edges, so more surface area was in contact with the head, thus giving that 'old-school' sound. More "thwack", less "doooooonnnnnggggg".BUT...if the edges are buggered, then the edges are buggered...tuning high may make the tom ring more lively....but...you are gonna have to decide if, as a player, you want 'em tuned high. A good old shell with level, smooth edges usually doesn't dictate it's own tuning...they tend to be pretty flexible if all is copasetic with the shell.IMHO, I don't like tuning 3-ply re-ringed shells high...I don't think it brings out the best qualities in 'em. [/COLOR]
I wasn't necessarliy stating to tune them high, just higher than one may normally tune them now. 3-plys don't lend themselves well to ultra low rock type tuning......you know, where the heads ar more flappy than anything? 3-plys like a nice medium big band/ jazz type tuning......when I tune them I try to shoot for that wipe open early Keith Moon type sound....thats where they sound best.....similar to Roy Haynes' tuning of his Jazzette back in the day. Ya gotta find the sweet spot of each drum when tuning, and tuning the rack toms when they are mounted helps a lot on getting the "deadness" tuned out of them, assuming you are using the original mounts to mount them and NOT a RIMS mount.
I recently bought a set of Downbeat Ludwigs from the 60's. Each drum was originally from another kit so their age varies from '61 to '69. For some reason my 12" tom seems to choke a lot easier than the other drums. I've got coated ambassador batter and clear ambassador resonant. Does anyone know why or suggest an idea to prevent it? I've attached a link with pictures of the bearing edges of the kit, if anyone thinks this might be problem.http://vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=7989
Ummm...have a silver sparkle '64 Down Beat kit (I bought it in that year, so am the original owner) and don't recall seeing such messy looking bearing edges :eek: on any of my toms, including both 12 and 14 toms from the kit, or on the subsequent additions: 14 and 16 pre-serial floor and 13 (this one is from '68) toms...nor on the pre-serial 13 piccolo snare drum; they all are clean and smooth as a whistle!
Can't really tell you whether that's the reason yours "chokes" or not, but will mention that my 12 does seem to choke up a bit compared to the other toms on the set; however, it does vary to a greater or lesse degree with tuning.
Will also mention that a custom made 10 (by John Riolo in Oregon) rack tom wrapped in silver sparkle based on a Keller shell with a different cut bearing edge and same type of heads (Evans clear hydraulics--yeah, I know...but these heads do keep the practicing noise at a minimun and the neighbors happy! D' Drummer ) outperforms its vintage 12 brother by a good marging in terms of greater and more even resonant qualities, but I digress.
Seems to me, tho, that a little cleaning up and very, very careful truing of the bearing edge (only if is needed, but advice not to change its angle cut in any way, shape, or form!) on yours could very well solve the "choking" problem you're presently experiencing. Good luck on your quest!...
-elcid
