Here is a pic of the stamp...

[IMG]http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/templsounds/1505gmoldKcymbalstampresize.jpg[/IMG]

Now this one truly is an enigma.

Because it lacks both the "K" and the "Istanbul", this would seem to create an intractable problem for the novice trademark analyst. The reason being is that these same two characteristics are essential in uniquely defining and separating out the type IIIa from the type IIIb . However that's where manufacturing characteristics from each era come into play, and can serve as a powerful tool. In this case its the lathing style.

From that alone I'm confident that I can tell you, this must be a IIIa.

Amongst all the old stamp eras, this one happens to be my own personal favorite. I have 3 of these. And all of them are in "holy grail" territory. I've heard more gems with this trademark than any other era by far.

Thanks for that info Bill!

Here is another 20" that I got this year, any ideas..? It is 1830gm.

[IMG]http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/templsounds/20K20101830gm.jpg[/IMG]

That's a IIb. I also have a 20" with that trademark, and a 14" pair of hats.

I made one error concerning your first cymbal. I said there was no "Istanbul", but clearly there is. The only problem here is that its in the wrong place. It should be above the "Zildjian" and not below. So I focused in on "Istanbul" instead. Compare the arrangement of the components in the second trademark to the first.

But that doesn't change the end result anyway. The form of "Zildjian" seen here is that of the IIIa.

Thanks Bill..

Why we are on a roll..

Here is another..

18" ...1240 gm

[IMG]http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/templsounds/18Koldstamp.jpg[/IMG]

Wow..you've sure got some nice ones.

That's a type I.

Thanks Bill!

Yes...that type 1 is really the cats meow..everything that a K should be..I would like to get my hands on a 20 and a 22 type 1 that is comparable..

Lets see if I can stump you ..

Here is an old AZ China..Jack Gilfoy used this cymbal w/Mancini..

What era do you think..

[IMG]http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/templsounds/OldKandAZCymbals180resize.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/templsounds/OldKandAZCymbals153resize.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm78/templsounds/OldKandAZCymbals141resize.jpg[/IMG]

Ive never seen a China with these kind of ridges..like waves on the surface..

Neither have I. Not sure on this one because I can't see the Arabic script.