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Thank you to the Forum, the Community

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I am having amazing luck with restoring and rescuing MIJ drums. A lot of people here are nay-sayers where these MIJ drums are concerned. I am a professional where restoration work is concerned, in that I have been working on stuff since I was very young, and this came naturally to me.

I cannot afford Vintage American drums. I love them. I love them all, MIJ, MIA, MIE, even some MIT. There are some drums I don't like, don't understand at all. But these stencils are truly amazing. Many will say it's amazing they are even still around, they were junk 40 years ago, and still are today. I will admit, many are, but there are, in my estimation, many more that are very good instruments.

Others of us think differently, we look at them with the same respect, admiration and reverence that most of this community only reserves for American and some European drums. These instruments went through a very difficult and sometimes painful evolution. Star and Pearl are the big players, and a third, not unknown, but undocumented for the time being. We are looking into and are investigating the history to get it done. I have become a drum historian, of sorts, along with three or four others. It is also my belief that there was a foundry and metalworks that made most of the metal parts and supplied the factories. I have no proof, just conjecture and having worked on a few, there are some telling signs this could have been the case, in that many stencils have the same lugs, but have other parts that we are certain come from one or the other builder only.

I have learned something here. Something that I will take with me where ever I go. That I can be of value to the drummers of the world, that I can help others enjoy restoring drums, even though they are trash to many. We will take them and make them sing like they never have before. And they are just as lovely, and when we take lessons from the brothers, and sisters, that started this site for the preservation of one of the coolest instruments on the planet, that we can enjoy this hobby for a fraction of the cost, just as was the case 40 years ago. We can take these old, worn out drums and make them wonderful again, and in many cases enjoyable for the first time since they were taken out of the box. We can enjoy music.

If you have never tried your hand at restoring a $50.00 (MIJ) kit, try it. It is a challenge, yes it is. But there are a handful of people here that will guide you, as if you really need it, as you have guided us. When I can afford to to indulge in my first American kit, I will have the skills, the knowledge, to complete it and make it wonderful.

And if you try an MIJ kit, and let us show you the many differences that make them what they are, and how to overcome what you percieve as headaches, and "why the hell is it this way", and then when you are done, and have invested no more than a little time, and very few dollars comparatively, you will find the joy, the song we have found in these drums, a voice you never knew was there, that existed when you were 14, that you could not find, that we learned from you to find, and bring out, then you, too, will fall in love and get bitten all over again.

I love this new found hobby. It is bringing me and my son closer, at a time when he should be getting ready to begin the painful years of puberty and seperation from Mom and Dad.

Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is this:

Thank you all, thank you for teaching me, for taking the time to listen to me, and bear my ignorance as it turns to education and experience, and for giving me a way to bring my son closer. And for listening to my mumbo-jumbo, and allowing me to teach as well. To help others overcome ignorance and become educated as well. I know there exists a rift between those that think MIJ is nothing but junk, trash to be tossed. But remember this, we all do the same thing, we preserve this history for others, for generations to come, and we do this so that all future generations can enjoy this simple, yet complex instrument, for all walks of life, all budgets. It is what we do, as a community. I respect your opinions, please respect mine. The main difference between us is budgetary constraint, not knowledge, education or experience. It is a love for the instrument, and I love this instrument no less than you. Respect is something we lose in this world of not quite personal interaction, where it is very easy to forget our manners, and forget others have feelings. I know that I have insulted at least one member of this forum, unintentionally, but nonetheless it was painful, and I have apologized via PM, and now publicly, even though it has been quite some time since the incident.

But at least I realized my mistake, where sometimes others stomp and kick others dreams and ideals, and don't think twice about it, going on to another post in another section and leaving us scratching our heads, wondering why, what did we do, other than restore someting they percieve to be of no value, trash, and we continue to show respect for that person, in public, when he just kicked us in the teeth.

Anyway, it has happened to me on many occasions, and it is usually the same and I pass it off as ignorance. I have a slogan, something I used to "hang" on my Yahoo 360 page:

[COLOR=red]"Ignorance may be overcome by education. Stupidity, however, is a lifelong endeavor. Stupidity is the refusal to become educated. We must choose to be stupid."[/COLOR]

I choose to not be ignorant, learning whenever the chance arises, and to help others overcome ignorance. That is what this post is about, offering to help others become less ignorant, not only about drums, but about public humility, not bashing oithers dreams and visions. I like my "addiction" to "cheap, crappy" drums, as some members have called my drums. I don't call yours "overpriced ornaments", because some truly are ornaments. I personally, cannot fathom paying $2500 for an old snare that I am afraid to play. That does not mean I don't find it beautiful, majestic and a work of art, but I don't go to that post and make ugly comments either, saying that a drum could never be worth as much as a car, or motorcycle, or even, to some, a home. Because I understand the deep seated affection, the love of the instrument, not because I think it is absurd to want to pay that for a "drum". It is the same way for those of us that relish our successes with these MIJ drums. We find them just as exciting and alluring, even intoxicating as you find a pristine set of Ludwig Super Classics, or new in the box Gretsch Cadillac Green Nitron, or found in a closet Buddy Rich Slingerland in WMP that was played for an hour on the The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.

"Ignorance may be overcome through education. Stupidity, however, is a lifelong endeavor." So, educate me, I don't likes bein' ignant...
"I enjoy restoring 60s Japanese "stencil" drums...I can actually afford them..."I rescue the worst of the old valueless drums for disadvantaged Children and gladly accept donations of parts, pieces and orphans, No cockroaches, please...
http://www.youtube.com/user/karstenboy
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Coffee...16613138379603
Posted on 14 years ago
#1
Posts: 2433 Threads: 483
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WOW!!!It would take me all day to type that,but well said.You wont get to many arguments on this forum because i believe we are tolerant.Most MIJ non believers have thier right to thier opinion,so im going to assume your message is "To each his own"Cool1

Hit like you mean it!!
Posted on 14 years ago
#2
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Well Jonnistix!

Reads like the key-note speech at a vintage drum conference..and you could hold the work shop entitled "Restoring Vintage MIJ Drums". Nicely said!

As you stated there is a huge difference between ignorance and stupidity.

Becoming any kind of expert requires 1000's of hours of labour, study and practice. You clearly have put in the time and sweat with the dividend of a close relationship with your son... not only a good father but a MIJ vintage drum guru. So bravo!

I have a very nice MIJ BDP floor tom that I would like you to identify. I used it with my early '60's Ludwig Down Beat kit because I did not have the Ludwig floor tom. It was a most worthy replacement that served well in many gigs until I found the matching Ludwig FT. Unless you were in "the know" you would not have said that that floor tom did not belong there with the Ludwigs, esp. if you were listening to the music from it.

I will post pics here this evening for you to identify the MIJ floor tom.

Your post is a nice distillation of thought that clearly comes from devotion, success and happiness with your pursuit. Well done!

-kellyj

"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing..."
Posted on 14 years ago
#3
Posts: 2433 Threads: 483
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Kelly...pm sent.

Hit like you mean it!!
Posted on 14 years ago
#4
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right on man! Community is a life essential- I like how it keeps the discovery an ongoing thing- everybody`s out there finding new stuff and it all weaves together.

For info. & live schedule:
www.EricWiegmanndrums.com
*Odery Drums Japan endorser/ representative
*Japan Distributor of Vruk DrumMaster pedals
*D'Addario Japan Evans/Promark/Puresound
*Amedia Cymbals Japan

It's the journey not the destination.
Posted on 14 years ago
#5
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Here is the pic of my mij 16" BDP floor tom. 8-lug drum with a nice thin 3-ply shell with re-rings, a muffler styled after Gretsch. Wing nuts on the leg mounts are styled after Ludwig. No badge so, jonnistix, anyone know the make/year?

Great woody tone..

Cheers!

-kellyj

3 attachments
"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing..."
Posted on 14 years ago
#6
Posts: 6288 Threads: 375
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Holy crap, Jonni.......

Last time I went that deep, I had to surface three times for air...

I admire your dedication man.

I have learned a lot from you, I thank you sir.

Kevin

Kevin
Posted on 14 years ago
#7
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kelly:Nice drum! I think it's a Pearl, it has 2 rings, whereas the Stars I have noticed have a third, in the middle. The 14s I have seen all have had the third ring, all having been Star. The lugs we are finding are almost impossible until we get later on when CBS finally started taking action against both Star and Pearl to stop the trademark infringements. This set of lugs looks like the ones from my TRAH/HRK 16, a later attempt by someone, and most of us believe to be Tiawanese because the timing. Later they come, mort likely they are MIT. Nice tom, btw. And I know this is a sticky for a couple of guys, but those toms, when properly worked, sound incredible. My 14, in a blind comparison, will blow your mind. All I have done to it is polish the edges and put decent heads on it. 3 ply, 3 re-rings, mahogany inner and outer, with something lighter in between, probably popar or beech, but it is Japanese, so it could be a maple, since they did have quite a maple forest at one time.

Anyway I must admit this rambling came from somewhere else. I was reading through some older posts, looking for something when I came across several posts on several threads by the same handful of members about how much of a waste of time, energy, resources and perception they were "killing" the American companies off. Poor quality and high prices is what killed them, not the competition. It was hurtful to read those comments again. This is all about the fact that we are all historians now. The big 5 have been beat to death, with every facet investigated, down to the last known washer, it seems.

Before July, I had no real opinion on MIJ, because I had no idea there was that much difference, whether real or percieved. Admittedly, I am only a student of the instrument, and until the last week or so, only a handful of members knew that truth. And I am a quick study, and I am passionate about these drums. I know there are many out there that are pure garbage. I have no use for them and agree they are a waste of time money and good wood and wrap.

So, to those that "get it", thank you, I will try to remain humble and grow and learn and teach and share and spread the love.

To those that don't understand what I have said in this post, go read some of what we have been saying, these are a wonderful instrument, many of them, that can be amazing instruments, in the right hands, and will actually help you to preserve, for even longer, your precious American kit, meaning that if you follow along, doing one of these "worthless" kits in a happy way, you don't have to take your irreplacable kit out to the bars to gig, because this will get the job done.Yes Sir

"Ignorance may be overcome through education. Stupidity, however, is a lifelong endeavor." So, educate me, I don't likes bein' ignant...
"I enjoy restoring 60s Japanese "stencil" drums...I can actually afford them..."I rescue the worst of the old valueless drums for disadvantaged Children and gladly accept donations of parts, pieces and orphans, No cockroaches, please...
http://www.youtube.com/user/karstenboy
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Coffee...16613138379603
Posted on 14 years ago
#8
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KelleyJ, the best clue to the date is the muffler there- I have a 1968 Pearl ft with the same double (rectangular muffler). I haven`t seen those used any where near as often as the usual circular ones. The other is if it was re-rings or not- if it`s got rings then it`s earlier (I see you post that it`s got them)- just from looking at it from the outside I would put it between 68-72 and most likely a flat 69/70 would be a pretty safe bet. Nice drum

For info. & live schedule:
www.EricWiegmanndrums.com
*Odery Drums Japan endorser/ representative
*Japan Distributor of Vruk DrumMaster pedals
*D'Addario Japan Evans/Promark/Puresound
*Amedia Cymbals Japan

It's the journey not the destination.
Posted on 14 years ago
#9
Posts: 3972 Threads: 180
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I've always felt that the MIJ drums were the Yoko Ono of percussion. The great American Drum companies broke up because of her (them). I think that may be the genesis of the low tolerence levels experienced. Obviously I'm generalizing for the humor impact but you get the idea. Personally I like the MIJ kits. I can make them sound good. I also like some of the Chinese kits. If you work the shells they can sound pretty good. You really can't beat some of those MIJ wraps. They were wild!

Posted on 14 years ago
#10
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