Cool, thanks for that info too. I have a cymbal book that didn't have some of that info. I have a set of 15" sound edge formula 602 hats from 1969 that has the stamped logo, and some sort of 18" (I believe) ride that is the black print logo. At least, I think it's a ride of some variation. It seems too heavy for a crash.

F602 15" sound edge hats are extremely desireable and sought after. They were the most expensive hats Paiste made at the time. They are probably worth north of $400 if in excellent condition.

Regarding your comment about the 18". In F602's, Paiste produced an 18" medium ride and later on a flat ride. The other 18" cymbals were classified as thin, medium and heavy....no notation of ride or crash. At that time musicians, especially jazzers, were not so picky about what to call their cymbals. They looked for the best combination of rideability and crashability to fit their playing style, setting and drums - often only one or two cymbals and hats were used. For jazz, one was usually a swish or riveted cymbal along with a crash/ride.

Also, an 18" paper thin was produced. Very, very rare and hard to come by today.

Chris,

I wonder if you could comment on this cymbal that I just bought. I wanted to get a crash and this one was cheap with a Buy it Now price - I also thought that it seemed unique. I have copied the auction info -

You are bidding on a Vintage 16 inch LUDWIG PAISTE CRASH Cymbal. It is stamped MADE IN GERMANY and then directly below that it is stamped CHICAGO. Actually is a nice sounding cymbal. As you can see in the pics it does have a few dings in one spot. Center hole is not key-holed and measures out at approximately 7/16 inch. It is a little on the lighter side of dark sounding. Not trashy sounding at all. From what I have gathered it seems that the Germany made Paiste cymbals were made in the late 30's and early 40's. It has weathered the years well and is still full of life! There are not any cracks that I could find. I did not clean this at all, that would be your choice. Overall I would consider this cymbal to be in very good shape. You are buying it "as is". Nice cymbal!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170131889657&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=007

ANY IDEAS ABOUT THIS ONE?

Thanks alot for all the info too. Mike

Mike:

Very interesting cymbal Mike. I have not seen one with the CHICAGO stamp before. There are so many variations of the Ludwig cymbals. The Ludwig Paiste series was basically identical to the Paiste "Super" line and it may predate 1960 by a few years. I have a 1958 Paiste catalog with Stambul and Zilko cymbals only although this may represent the Swiss cymbals available at that time. Hard to say for sure.

The German production of cymbals started in approx. 1945 and still continues to this day. The factory was started as the Paiste family left Poland to escape communism at the end of the war.

The Swiss factory was started in 1957. I believe that the higher end cymbals were moved to the Swiss factory at this time. I would venture to guess that your cymbal is probably made between 1955 and 1960. The reason I suggest 1955 as the earliest possible date is because this was the time William F. Ludwig purchased the Ludwig portion of Ludwig & Leedy and merged it with WFL to become the Ludwig Drum Company in Chicago. This might be the origin of the CHICAGO stamp. And I believe the marketing deal with Ludwig was set up after that time.

The marketing deal was ended before 1969 because Ludwig catalogs after that time recommend Formula 602 cymbals - no mention of Ludwig Paistes.

I would be very interested if there is anyone out there who could share definitive details/dates about the Ludwig/Paiste marketing deal(s).

Drum Dad/

This is very cool information and it makes me interested to dig into this more. I really am glad that I bought the cymbal if for nothing else, its history, not to mention that I wanted one.

The logo looks very similar to the first Ludwig Paiste with the 3 stars and the crescent, and it does look older (more handcrafted) than the Ludwig Standard logo made in Germany.

I really appreciate your sharing your insight and knowledge with me/us Chris. I might try to ask around on the details about the Ludwig marketing arrangement and see what I can find out and report back to you.

Thanks again, and again.

Mike

I have actually owned about 10 of the "LUDWIG STANDARD PAISTE"(MADE IN GERMANY,,,,,,AS A MATTER OF FACT PROBABLY 15 YEARS AGO (OR MAYBE LONGER) I WAS HONORED TO HAVE SOME GUY NAMED BILL LUDWIG III AUTOGRAPH A 12 "INCH THAT HANGS ON MY DRUMROOM WALL NEXT TO A ZILDJIAN PERSONALLY AUTOGRAPHED BY AHMAD ZILDJIAN FOR MY SON,,,HIS REMARK.....("DAD I CANT PLAY IT NOW THAT HE SIGNED IT!!!!!)SO IT HANGS IN THAT ROOM AS WELL!!!!!.....I AM SO BLESSED BY SO MANY GIFTS FROM MASTERS SUCH AS THESE AND FEE MY DUTY TO "PLAY IT FORWARD" AND ADVISE ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THE DRUMMING WORLD TO DO THE SAME,,,,,WITH FEELING.....AS JEFF POCARRO WOULD SAY ,,,,,"IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GROOVE" DIG IT......

I found this thread while searching for info on my Ludwig Paiste 22" ride. Thanks for the information.

And now, as far as Paiste in concerned...the rarest of the rare:

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/elvinscymbals/websize/stambul.jpg[/img]

Am I not seeing "Made in Turkey" on that cymbal? If so, then I'm not sure that it could be a Paiste. I know that Paiste used the name "Stambul" for a line of theirs, but the word "Stambul" is a translated variation name for "Istanbul", much like "Cologne" is a translation for "Koln" or "Londres" is a French translation for "London".

Here's an entry from Wikipedia:

Stamboul

Has Paiste confirmed that this is one of their older cymbals? I know that they are very open to that sort of thing if you email them with a photo of the die stamp.

You are correct...that does say "Made in Turkey". So this may or may not actually be from Paiste. But they did make a series called Stambul and according to the Pinksterboer book. But even thouh the "Made in Turkey" would seem to rule Paiste out, several other manufacturers used the name "Constantinople" and/or "Made in Turkey" in their trademarks when in fact they were actually made in Italy or the U.S.

That's a good suggestion though....I'll email paiste and find out for sure.