Well if calfskin and Drumaholic is right,,,we have a nice class action lawsuit brewingSumo Dude

The 602's are made of B-20. I don't think there's any evidence to the contrary on that.

And as to the claim that Zildjian adds silver to their alloy...not true.

A trace of silver is already present in the copper. That's how they get away with making that claim. It makes for good advertising hype.

Every alloy/metal has a different conductivity rating, per the IACS (International Annealed Copper Standard). All one needs is a tester, and a chip of pure B20. Touch the pure chip of B20, then touch the cymbal in question, and see where their phases line up on the tester........A branch of the company I work for does this all the time to verify the tube material that is being tested.

Or, you can touch a Zildjan, then touch a 602 Paiste, and see where they line up on the tester. Also, I would have to believe that materials that are rolled differently would register a bit differently, conductivity-wise, but that is my theory, and not a fact of the argument.

I don't own a 602, or I would take them to work and figure this out in about thirty seconds..............

It isn't rocket science, or anything "magical" about cymbals and their materials. It is physics.

Toodles

Drumhack

That's right. Paiste touts their "sound creation alloy" like it's some big secret.

All you'd need to do to find out the exact formulation would be to take it to a lab for quantitative analysis. No more secret then.

OK, we agree on this!

Then remains only the discussion about whether 602 are made from sheet and how they are rolled...and how we will get to know that?

Regards

Jon

LOL. They aren't getting their monies worth of "upgraded-alloy-advertising" then! During copper mining operations, they also find $izable amounts of gold, which they separate from the copper via some electric process or something like that, which I doubt is 100% effective!

Actually, you might mean the "Paiste Sound Alloy". The alloy was created and patented (I've seen the patents posted on various site before) so it wasn't a "secret" per se, as it was intellectual property that other makers were not allowed to use without compensating Paiste for its use. Now, the patent has expired and the alloy is free game for anyone to use.

And to the original poster: Paiste has re-issued the 18" 602 Thin Crash, so you can find it new (although the label is no longer blue, but the classic hollow-black "PAiSTe" from the 70s.

And one thing; Paiste receives circular blanks from its supplier, much like many artisan cymbalsmiths do, such as Matt Bettis, Matt Nolan, Craig in Australia, Michael Paiste, and many others (in fact, Matt Nolan and Michael Paiste occasionally source their blanks from the same foundry as Paiste). The cymbals' profiles are then hammered into shape (for the pro lines) and pressed into shape for the student/budget lines.

O.K., well that's a nice story. But how does that have anything to do with this disussion?

To me, it has just about everything to do with this discussion. Like Ivmikes post here:

I think both posts are highly relevant to this discussion. But maybe we don´t agree to what we are really discussing?

;-)

Regards

Jon

How its actually rolled is what's at issue here.

The method of casting sheet bronze is quite different from casting the bronze into individual ingots and then forming them into billets.