Perhaps you should show him this picture of what a cast ingot looks like using the Zildjian process (top of middle column). An inch thick and a few inches in diameter (think hockey puck):

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/zildjian-process.jpg[/img]

Then ask him again if he really thinks that "scratch marks" in the mold will be there to be seen after the ingot gets reheated and put through a mill up to 7 times* in different directions? You can show him the flattened "pizza dough" blanks coming out in the next photo down. It will be stretched and flattened until it gets big enough to make a much larger diameter cymbal. This process is completely different from the Italian one of casting in the shape of a cymbal.

This is the first time I've heard anybody claim that it is the hammering which creates the interlocking grains in a Zildjian cymbal. All other references refer to that coming from the multi way rolling. Hammering might add a little work hardening to the surface, but that's different. And the flexibility comes from the annealing process, according to all published sources. Is your friend familiar with the unusual tri-phase properties of B20 bronze? That is, CuSn20 or 80% Copper 20% Tin. It has quite different properties from most other bronzes, let alone other materials. Particularly car parts.

I'm not feeling the science here.

* other descriptions say more than 7, but the same principle applies. Interlocking grains created by repeated hot rolling under great pressure and with the blank in different directions.

I`ll be sure to remember to mention his guess about the scratches didn`t pan out with Avedis cuz they rolling pizza doe. I don`t care what he knows about metals, it`s more than me.

The roller directions thing sounds cool. Next time I see it on a Zildjian, I`ll try and picture that.

Try and not look at the hammering, and look only at the ripples or grain. I wanna think that the doe machine did this but can`t quite picture it.

Like the rotocast but not quite the same thing. It goes from the center out in all directions but don`t curl back from spinning. This is just one I found online but when you have them in your hand, you can see it looks like stretch marks but they don`t hammer it out they doe machine it out.

scratches on the blank cast make more sense but I really don`t know for sure the cause of the effect.

doe....that's lathe chatter.

Lathe chatter and/or the machine hammering on top of the lathing.

Lathing actually shaves off part of the cymbal. Whether a UFIP rotocast pie, or a Turkish style rolled and pressed pie, any "scratching" on the raw cymbal would be long gone after a lathe touches it.