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Bellson - What did he play?

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I've been working on some new charts and listening to Louie in the process. I'd noticed that his cymbal sound, especially his ride, was different from many other big band drummers (Lewis, Rich) and decided to look up what he used (say, from the late 70's through the 90's, or late 80's). Unfortunately there is no information I've been able to find that documents what he played - the Zildjian configurator doesn't work for him, and his own website has no detail at all. I seem to recall he used 14" New Beats (heavy bottom) and I remember a Zildjian 'A' Ping Ride, but that's all I can recall, and I think he used two different rides on his set. And I have no information on his crash or special-effect cymbals, swish, china, etc.

Would anyone have more information of what he used, sizes, weights, layout etc.? I'm just amazed I can find nothing online about this. Photos don't give me much information.

My reason for asking is I'm evaluating adding or changing some cymbals in my 'base' layout, and I'm curious as to where his sound was in relation to other heavyweight big band drummers, specifically Buddy, Mel, Jake, and Nick Ceroli (who I've been listening to recently with the Bob Florence Limited Edition). Thanks! -Rick

Posted on 10 years ago
#1
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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I actually had the honor of setting up and tearing down Louie's set a few times in the years just before he died. Unfortunately I don't remember exactly what his cymbals were. Zildjians of course but I don't remember the models. he had a couple of 18" crash cymbals, a K Constantinople, a china.

You might be able to make some of it out in these videos I did...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8MT2E3if0E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8MT2E3if0E[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkKAeFSKIUU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkKAeFSKIUU[/ame]

I once asked Louie if he still went to Zildjian to pick out his own cymbals but he said that they knew what he liked and sent him the right cymbals when he needed some. I believe these same cymbals were used at each of his concerts that he did around here for several years.

His drums and cymbals are still in storage in this area, Francine never had them shipped back to California. Just this past weekend I was asked to help set them up again for some percussion related event but couldn't because I had to work. Too bad as that might have refreshed my memory a bit. They were set up in the lobby of a local hotel for a while but I guess they had been packed away again at some point.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR8BxS7QUwU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR8BxS7QUwU[/ame]

Posted on 10 years ago
#2
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It's an honor to be asked, I'm sure, and it must be something that you cherish. I would. I'll study the videos - unfortunately, I'm truly terrible at discerning what a cymbal is by it's appearance, although it does look like he's using some non "A' types. Would you agree that he was using a Ping Ride, or had he moved on from that? Thanks for your post and the videos. -Rick

UPDATE: I'd seen and studied at least one of these videos on youtube before I posted; I'll take a closer look.

Posted on 10 years ago
#3
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Bellson was involved in the development of the New Beat hihats in the 1960s, so it seems likely those were his hats later on.

/Magnus

Posted on 10 years ago
#4
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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Yes he had at least a couple of K's in the mix, one of which was a Constantinople type. I'm a gear nut and I really did pay attention to what he had at the time but I neglected to write any of it down and now the memory has faded (old age).

I took extensive pictures which may show more but they were on a computer that went defunct. I think they are backed up on another free standing hard drive and I will look for them tonight and post if I find anything.

Here's what he was using back in the 60's...

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Posted on 10 years ago
#5
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His Remo kit consisted of 2-24" bass drums, 13 x 9 rack tom, 2-16 x 16 floor toms. He also had an 8" and 10" to his left and 16 and 18 Roto-toms to his right. Don't know all the cymbals, but I thought he uses a Swish Knocker, but in video its a China Boy High. I see some K Cons in that video too.

Its better to have people think you're an idiot, than to open your mouth and prove them wrong, unless you doubt yourself then speak away....
Posted on 10 years ago
#6
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K.O., thanks for that jpeg. I think I have that in my Zildjian archive (although I think mine is from a later time period; not a big difference though). I recall that he used a very similar setup to BR up to about the mid 70s and then started changing things (I do vaguely recall the crash-ride and didn't know the size - thanks). Maybe I can begin to document how he changed going forward. And I agree that he seemed to be using Constantinoples, which, to me, is an odd choice for a player who always seemed to favor the 'A' sound for so many years. No matter how many times I listen to them, I can't seem to get an attraction for them. I confess that I don't like dark cymbals.

backbeatkeeper, thanks for the info on the China Boy High. I see it had rivets in it, which is different, or at least custom. I'll have to compare that to the Swishknocker.

Posted on 10 years ago
#7
Posts: 2264 Threads: 83
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Rick - in the 1980 Ludwig book that I have "Cymbal Setups of Famous Drummers" should list the cymbals he used at that time. Let me check it out and I can let you know in a day or two. Bellson even signed his page in the book...cool.

The greatest gift you can give your family and the world is a healthy you. - Joyce Meyer
Posted on 10 years ago
#8
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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Here's some photos from what I believe was Louie's second to last public performance. At that time it appears he was using 3 K cons, an A Crash Ride, a China Boy High, and A Mastersound Hi-Hats. I believe he was using this set-up for at least a couple years prior to this but of course these weren't the same cymbals as he was using back in his prime years.

Posted on 10 years ago
#9
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K.O., that is perfect! It does answer some of my questions. The Mastersound 'hats are a real surprise (and I see that the bar code tag was still attached!). And I'd say that 'A' Crash Ride is a 20". I'm still puzzled by the K Connies, though. I'll have to do more research on these three cymbals, all of which appear to be rides? So, was he using four cymbals that were ride-able?

Posted on 10 years ago
#10
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