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Holed !!

Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
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First of all, I`d like to thank anyone who tried to ID my HH stand, I find it impossible and I hope someone someday can.

Another mystery for me, ...I hope not for you guys !!,...I got this crash (16") well, I use it for a crash,..anyway, I`ve found quite quickly on this forum that the stamp is a 60s` era, but my cymbal has six holes in it that look to have been put there by the factory, but also may have been done sometime durring it`s history.

Does anyone know if the factory would do this and if so, why ??

Does it take away from it`s value if someone else did it ??

I like the way it sounds so I could care less, but I have been wondering since the 70s` what the heck those holes are for !!

I got a Sabian B8 ride and a no-name 14" hi hat pair that has in itty bitty stamped letters "Made in Japan" on the outer edges !!

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It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 13 years ago
#1
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Those holes are for rivets to get a "sizzle" effect.

Posted on 13 years ago
#2
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
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I would never have thought that !! Is this something the factory would do ??

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 13 years ago
#3
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I think sometimes they came from the factory as "sizzle" cymbals and sometimes the rivets were added aftermarket. But I believe that you could order the rivets with your cymbal as an option. I've seen cymbals with rivets all the way around like yours and cymbals with just three rivets in a straight line. It appears that somebody at some point removed the rivets on your cymbal. Cymbal experts? Feel free to chime in.

Posted on 13 years ago
#4
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From pjn1375

I think sometimes they came from the factory as "sizzle" cymbals and sometimes the rivets were added aftermarket. But I believe that you could order the rivets with your cymbal as an option. I've seen cymbals with rivets all the way around like yours and cymbals with just three rivets in a straight line. It appears that somebody at some point removed the rivets on your cymbal. Cymbal experts? Feel free to chime in.

Exactly right. You could custom order a cymbal with rivets or put them in yourself, as I and many others did back in the day.

These days most people, if they use rivets at all, seem to opt for 1,2 or 3 just to get a bit of added sustain. Usually the rivets are now placed an inch or so apart on one side of the cymbal in a straight line as you suggest. My experience from as early as the '60s and '70s was that most people then seemed to use six and occasionally even 8 rivets evenly distributed around the circumference, perhaps around 2 inches or so from the edge. There are a few different kinds of rivets available. I prefer the copper ones available from Bosphorous for their subtle "sizzle". Some others are too heavy and too loud. There is a chain made to simiulate the effect without drilling, but IMHO it so heavy I find it compromises the natural sustain of the cymbal and provides only a marginal sizzle effect.

Sizzle cymbals in general seem to have been used mostly by drummers in smaller jazz configurations and is much less in fashion today even amount jazz players. If memory serves me correctly, they tended to be used a lot on medium/thin and thin crash/rides than on other types. I assume that was because the added sustain was more pronounced on thinner cymbals. But I also have a medium heavy old K with 2 rivets, so what do I know FYI

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 13 years ago
#5
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
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Well that`s one of my mysteries aparently solved !!, thanks alot guys,....What kind of rivets would one use ?? Cuz I got copper rivets in my truck I use all the time. A photo would be nice !!

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 13 years ago
#6
Posts: 2628 Threads: 40
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[COLOR="Purple"]You hear a lotta stories as to the purpose of rivets. back on older cymbals, talking '40's & earlier, you sometimes find hella heavy ol' rivets and a lot of 'em. Sometimes on heavy cymbals, more often on medium and lighter ones.

One story goes that since kits weren't mic'ed with more than a couple of mics, playing live or in the recording studio required the washy sizzly sound to be more pronounced than it would record or project over a band by itself. Thus 6 or 8 rivets.

I think by the mid-late '60's and beyond, you started seeing rivets on heavier cymbals because it was a way to get a good stick 'tic' AND a sizzly wash simultaneously, and not have the cymbal wash out on prolonged stick patterns.

Some folks do that today...as mentioned above, however...it is more de rigeur to do between 1-3 rivets, usually clustered in a smaller area...because after about #3, it becomes redundant.

I have also known a gent or two who have added a single rivet (post factory, obviously) to a cymbal to diminish or cloak an annoying overtone, roar, or whistle their cymbal makes.

If the holes are equally spaced(or visually hella close to it), no worries on your cymbal. Oftentimes that's the telltale sign of a home job: inconsistently placed holes.[/COLOR]

www.2ndending.com
Posted on 13 years ago
#7
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From OddBall

Well that`s one of my mysteries aparently solved !!, thanks alot guys,....What kind of rivets would one use ?? Cuz I got copper rivets in my truck I use all the time. A photo would be nice !!

Copper is good, but it depends how big and heavy they are. How will you install them? They have to be loose enough in the holes to move and sizzle. They also have be long enough to easily bounce up and down several millimeters. I forget o mention one of the reasons they were used for small ensemble jazz was because you could get a nice sustain even from wire brushes and it created a nice fill effect behind singers and bass and piano solos especially on ballads.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 13 years ago
#8
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
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I found the sizzle rivits on the vintage cymbal guide,...Not quite the commercial grade I use,....I`ll have to rose over the open end with a hand rivit tool or half round screw !!

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 13 years ago
#9
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
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The hand tool will do it correctly, the screw will mushroom it but both will stay in loose !!

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 13 years ago
#10
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