Tried the Ludwig C1114 today....it is not quite what I was looking for. The head plays a little stiff compared to Remo heads. I think I also prefer the slight warmth of a hazy head over the clear ones. I appreciate the suggestion, though.

I was also told today that Remo won't make make my special order head because of the risk of it pulling out. I think that half the collar height would also do the trick.

Do you think Remo will make a Diplomat snare side for me with a shallow collar? I would at least want something shorter than stock.

I've got a couple of questions, what year is your RK snare drum? also your saying remo won't make the heads you want collar wise? so If they have reservations of the heads pulling with an ambassador they'll have the same reply again with the emperor head! I'm not following you when your saying the collar is near the bearing edge?

My understanding is that the rim winds up sitting so low due to the depth of the collar of the head that it is nearly flush with the edge of the shell.

I think that's what is going on?

Well, it was worth a shot -- sorry it didn't work out! I didn't remember it being a stiff head compared to Remo Ambassadors, but I guess it would be when compared to a Diplomat. (Either that or my memory's just failing me.) ;)

How did the collar height compare to the standard Remo heads?

I wonder if they'd make you one of their marching Ambassador heads, but using a Diplomat weight film. Those heads are made completely flat, with no collar at all. That might be a bit too short for you, though

The Ludwig heads left PLENTY of room for sure! haha. The heads don't stretch as much AND the collar height is lower. I'd guess that I had about 1/2 an inch of clearance once the head was tightened.

That's exactly what's happening. It's a 59' RK....in round as well.

Y'know, if you're using a Diplomat and stretching it to the point your rim is bottoming out... Maybe you're just exceeding the tension that the Diplomat can handle. The thinner the Mylar, the more prone it is to stretch. Also, different plastic formulations have different resistance to stretching (as you saw with the Ludwig head), so maybe another head with a different film would work for you.

So anyway, some other possible solutions:

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[*] Stick with the Diplomat, but at a lower tension so it doesn't stretch to the max.

[*] Switch to an Ambassador -- same film, but a mil thicker. Not quite as sensitive, but more resistant to stretching.

[*] Try heads from other manufacturers: You've tried the Ludwig snare side. Among others, there's also the Evans Hazy 200 (2 mil), Evans Hazy 300 (3 mil), Evans Orchestral 200 (2 mil), Evans Orchestral 300 (3 mil), Aquarian Classic Clear (3 mil), Aquarian Modern Vintage (3 mil), etc. The Terry Bozzio heads from Attack also seem to have a following, but it's the same Mylar that Remo uses, so I don't think that would solve the problem.

[/list]

My next suggestion, which may not be any better than the next guy's, would be to try the Evans Orchestral 300. It's thicker than the Diplomats you're used to, but that'll help to resist stretching so the head won't bottom out and it'll maintain the tuning you like. And even though it's an Ambassador weight head, I've found it to be pretty responsive.

No matter what you try, good luck and keep us posted!

...and as a footnote, I've got Aquarian American Vintage heads on my '56 Radio King. (Mostly 'cause that's what fits!) They seem pretty darn resistant to stretching -- it took over a week for the head to stretch enough to conform to the snare bed! It's got a warm sound and moderate response -- nothing at all like a Diplomat. I'd actually be inclined to say its response is a little drier than an Ambassador. I like it, though. It works well on this drum.

Thanks SkyDog! I might try the Evans 2mil next....

I thought that I might be over-tensioning the Diplomat, but since the head did not show any signs of tearing or pulling out I wasn't sure. For now I am still tweaking the Ambassador. I'm mostly working on tweaking for snare response. It's got a modified Trick strainer to fit the stock holes so I've been messing with different wires, string/ribbon, etc. I'm close....real close ;)

Thanks again for the help!

If you apply tension slowly and evenly enough, you can keep stretching and stretching a Mylar head without pulling or ripping it -- as you've found out. ;) To prevent a head from doing that, apply less tension or use a different/thicker head that can handle the tension you're shooting for.

I've also got a Trick strainer on mine -- see the attached pics.

I spent a lot of time figuring out the tuning on my drum, too. I tried 20-strand PureSound Customs and 20-strand Pearl wires and I couldn't get either set of wires dialed in. I could get them close, but sympathetic buzz was a HUGE problem. I noticed that the PureSound Vintage wires for pre-Zoomatic Slingerlands were 12- and 16-strand, so I ordered a 16-strand set of Customs and they fixed all my tuning headaches pretty much instantly. Narrow snare bed, maybe?

Looks nice SkyDog! Fancier than mine, haha! I don't have any pix at the moment, unfortunately. I fabricated two aluminum brackets and had a friend weld them to the trick strainer. I wish I had screwed the strainer to the brackets because that aluminum alloy was hard to weld.

For wires, I am really liking the 16 strand Puresound Concert series. The coils are similar the vintage wires. My snare beds had to be widened due to a factory issue....they were at the 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock position.