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Drum snobbery!

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From Massivdrummer

You know it´s 2010, right? Your overconfidence in the quality of American products seem a little arrogant, not to say ignorant. Japan is high-tech, advanced, post-industrialized society and their products are indeed comparable with those from the new world. Just compare the quality of DW pedals with TAMA´s for instance. I´ve never heard of a TAMA footboard breaking or the footplate hinge getting bent, whereas on DW these issues are common. I´m not sayng Japanese products -or Chinese- are better than American -or European-, I´m merely saying you can´t, and shouldn´t, make such generalizations.

The DW footboard and footplate hinge that you are referring to that break, are you talking about the real american's one or the import one, since 2001 all dw hardware is republic of china not american,I have a dw 5000 pedal that has not laid down once for 14 years, i have first generation speed kings that work perfectly, my slingerland HH pedal works perfectly these two american examples i just used as examples are over 50 years old,Import gear will never have the status or resale value of the real american products, and there are 2 simple reasons for that, our hero's used and endorsed them, and they are and where better made, period, and I sincerely will take and wear the title of vintage snob,the only off shore drums i have ever played are Sonor since they are the oldest operating drum manfacture on the planet, and no other thank you,I'm very proud to be american and very proud of our products,

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#11
Posts: 1597 Threads: 96
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Ok he said it better than me i will now go be a snob in my corner.. :)

Posted on 14 years ago
#12
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From Mike T

Ok he said it better than me i will now go be a snob in my corner.. :)

Hey mike come on over i've got a good ole AMERICAN beer waiting for yaCool1Clapping Happy2

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#13
Posts: 1597 Threads: 96
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Now we're Talking.. :)

Posted on 14 years ago
#14
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I really don´t want to get into hair-splitting, but since you are asking I should reply. My personal experience with DW started back in -94 whith a double pedal. I think it was a 5000 but I´m not sure. The hinges broke after a year or so and the connecting rod "female" part got cracked. It´s one of the worst pedals I´ve ever owned. I am currently in possession of a new 4000 pedal (that I don´t use) which share the same hinge issue. So i guess some things never change.

Incidently, I am playng an all-american Trick. Great pedal. American stuff is sometimes good, sometimes bad. Japanese stuff is sometimes good, sometimes bad. That´s all I´m saying.

Mike T, you are very much entitled to your own opinion. I was just trying to challenge it. I hoped we could be less categorical. I don´t want this to be a discussion of America rules-everyone else sucks. Because we don´t suck. Neither do you.

Posted on 14 years ago
#15
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I only drive American cars - Chevy's Caddy's Buicks, RWD V8 pigs... but the fuel injection is from Germany, the alternators were assembled in Mexico and who knows what all was made in China. We have gotten used to dismal quality, stuff made by people who don't care.

For me, as important as the sound, is the vibe of a musical instrument, and for whatever reason near everything from Japan and China just doesn't do it for me.

They are exceptions though - Sony sure makes great stuff and I like Yamaha electronics... but it's more the design than the actual thing itself.

But as good as Pearl, Tama or Yamaha drums get, they affect me like a beautiful woman who is made out of plastic. That's just me, one guy out of 6.5 billion.

Posted on 14 years ago
#16
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A little historical perspective here. Drums weren't invented in the US - they were invented by cavemen more than 10000 years as seen in Paleolithic cave art. Drums that were light enough to be portable were made in Iraq at least 5000 years ago. Metal bronze drums were made in China and Vietnam 2500 years ago. Japan has temple drums more than 1000 years old. Timpani were made in the Middle East 800 years ago. Snare drums were made in Europe 700 years ago.

The modern "trap set" was largely developed in the US, but that is not because the US is "better" than anyone else - it's because Jazz was invented here. And even then there was lots of input from other countries and cultures - Ludwig's metal drums were based on a Sonor company drum (then called Weissenfels). African drumming certainly played a huge part. And let's not forget Turkish cymbals.

Don't get me wrong - I love old American drums and I have more than my share of them. And I think it's great that anyone in any country should want to buy NEW stuff made in their own country. Everyone should want to see their own family and friends employeed and productive - no matter what country they are from. So in a perfect world everyone in the world should try (when buying new) to buy from their own country.

My view is that cheap oil and globalization is the villain here, and not Japanese, or Chinese, or German drums or countries. As long as it is cheaper to make anything in the lowest wage country and burn petroleum to ship it across the ocean, there will be this tension caused by displacement of jobs. Better to protest at the G7 conference than to protest at Pearl or Tama.

But USED drums (and other things) are different. Buy what you want - it isn't helping or hurting anyone or country other than the person you're buying them from. And since this is in the Vintage Non-USA section; well if your boat is floated by Vintage Non-USA drums, then I say GO FOR IT.

Posted on 14 years ago
#17
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My view is that cheap oil and globalization is the villain here, and not Japanese, or Chinese, or German drums or countries. As long as it is cheaper to make anything in the lowest wage country and burn petroleum to ship it across the ocean, there will be this tension caused by displacement of jobs. Better to protest at the G7 conference than to protest at Pearl or Tama.

Amen brother.

Its all about the corporate ethics.

Also:

A company that makes an "inferior" product with unethically cheap labor would no doubt make the same inferior product in the USA. The goal is to make a massive amount of cheap product that can be purchased again and again. In fact, due to higher labor costs it would likely be even crappier if made in the USA. Does this mean you should always buy the USA product just because it is made in the USA? NO!!!

Its a symptom of our "throw away" society. The issue is not where it is made. It's about quality. Its about combatting the junk producers. Sadly the USA has just as many as any other country.

The issue is the company making the product. Tama, Yamaha, Pearl, Brady, Sonor, etc all make great products. You will never go wrong supporting them, and hopefully they will continue to make great drums. If they start making crap....stop supporting them and support someone who is making great drums. Simple as that. Should we not support Ronn Dunnett because he is from Canada? He makes some of the best drums in the world!

I say support companies that make great products no matter where they are made. If you want to buy only from your home country...then more power to you. Each country in the world makes plenty of high-quality products. I don't see how you can say it is WRONG to support ANY company that makes a killer product.

And when it comes to food....BUY LOCAL!!!

I am officially off of the soap box!

-Adam

Posted on 14 years ago
#18
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....and for the record I have had nothing but horrible luck with DW hardware as well. Does anyone else feel this way? I think it is absolute garbage. I have had multiple 9000 series pedals fail, as well as snare stands and hi-hat clutches. Can't get their pedals to stick to a vintage bass drum hoop to save my life! Their drums don't have any character imho either. Haven't heard the classic series drums yet...but I have not been impressed with any DW kit I have heard or played. I can buy 3 killer vintage kits for the price of 3 of their drums!

I play almost exclusively 60's/70's Slingerland and Ludwig drums for my live dates and sessions (except for a 1939 Radio King 7x14), but recently I was doing a fly in date up in Edmonton AB Canada, and the promoter backlined a Silver Sparkle Lacquer Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute kit. The kit sounded so good (even with kinda beat heads) that I actually contemplated spending some bucks on new Yamaha kit this year.

I came to my senses when I got home and found an insane deal on a near mint Pacific Blue 9/72 Rogers kit 22/12/13/16/18 w/ COB Dyna!

-Adam

Posted on 14 years ago
#19
Posts: 2433 Threads: 483
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Dunets shells are made in Taiwan,he uses all off shore product like most assemblers which is fine as long as whom ever is buying is being told the truth.....Most of us know the truth about his "operation"......Its a choice we all have.If you buy a Tama kit from Guitar Center,is this not supporting America,unless GC corporate office is in ThailandMind Blowi

Hit like you mean it!!
Posted on 14 years ago
#20
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