Hello and welcome to VDF.

Your set looks like a Downbeat, except with a 22” bass drum instead of the 20”. Ludwig, and many retailers, permitted size substitutions by the customer.

Josh

I’ve done a lot of reading and every time I stumble on a similar thread on here or elsewhere, I become a little more unsure in terms of what set I actually have. Big Beat? Deluxe Classic? Super Classic? The guy I bought them from couldn’t tell me, and there seems to be a fair amount of debate when anyone asks a question such as this about their kit.

Sizes are 12” 14” 22”.

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- Hi, those are 1976 badge numbers shown in your post. I've got the '75-1 Ludwig catalog, which I picked up at Marvin Kay's Music Center in Jacksonville, FL in mid-1976, when I ordered a new Ludwig kit from there.

It shows:

"Big Beat" kit had Supraphonic snare, 22/12/13/16. It was really a "Hollywood" kit with the upgrade of the heavy-duty Atlas cymbal stands, Atlas snare stand, and Atlas "Big Beat" hi-hat.

"Deluxe Classic" kit had Supraphonic snare, 22/13/16. Single tom mount on the bass drum. Two light-weight "classic" cymbal stands (model 1400). Atlas snare stand and Atlas "Big Beat" hi-hat.

"Super Classic" kit had Supraphonic snare, 22/13/16. Single tom mount AND cymbal mount on the bass drum. Hardware was the light-weight "classic" line: a flat-based cymbal stand (model 1400) and snare stand (model 1363), and classic hi-hat (model 1123-1)

"Downbeat" kit is not shown in this catalog, so I cannot comment on it.

"Ludwig Jazzette" kit had a Supraphonic snare, 18/12/14. Single tom mount was installed centered atop the bass drum. Hardware was all the light-weight "classic" line.

I'm no expert on the history of Ludwig production, but my guess is that you have a Jazzette kit with a substituted 22" bass drum. The lack of a tom mount on the bass drum would - seem to me - also indicate a special order.

Regards, MB

The thing to understand is that all the drums were the same regardless of what outfit they may have come with. The outfit names were just different combinations of the one type of Drum that Ludwig made at the time. An 8x12 tom from a Downbeat set was identical and interchangeable with the same size from a Hollywood, Big Beat, Jazzette, or Blue Note outfit (or any other set that used that size drum). People sometimes say things like they have a "downbeat" tom or a "Hollywood" tom but there is no such thing as either.

I see no evidence of the original tom holder. That might mean it never had one or that it was hidden by the rewrap you think it has had. Knowing what the original mounts were might give some indication of whether these drums were ever a part of a bigger set. A center post style (large hole in the top center of the shell) might indicate it was originally a 5 piece set with double toms. If it had a rail mount (four small holes in a rectangular pattern, offset to the drummer's left) then it probably was a 4 piece. The 14x14 is an outlier since it only was cataloged with two sets but was readily available.

As mentioned above no one was locked in to only buying the catalog configurations. If someone wanted a "Downbeat" set but with a 22 or 24" bass drum Ludwig would do that no questions asked. You'd just have to pay the difference. A dealer could have ordered in that combination to sell if they thought it was preferable to the standard sizes or they could have pieced a new set together from drums they had in stock.

The popular Downbeat set (12/14/20) was dropped in the mid 70s so if someone wanted those sizes they'd have to custom order a set, at that point substitution of a larger bass drum would only require specifying that size on the order.

Your serial numbers do suggest drums that were made at the same time or very close together so I would think these were bought together and not pieced together after the fact, although you can't 100% say they weren't.

Again, the important thing is, however they were delivered really doesn't matter, they are all the same top of the line drums of that era.

There is no name for your shell pack. It wasn't a company-named configuration as it is. If it was rewrapped, then the 22" likely isn't a virgin from the factory and I would guess that a good look at the interior will bear this out.

Thanks so much for all the input. The common consensus seems to be that the configuration doesn't fit any of the "standard sets" and could well have been a custom order at the time. That's super helpful to know, thanks!

"If it was rewrapped, then the 22" likely isn't a virgin from the factory and I would guess that a good look at the interior will bear this out." - O-Lugs

I suspected this when I first bought it so had a good look at the inside of the bass drum. There is absolutely nothing that suggests there was once a mount that has since been covered or filled in. No holes, covers etc. Unless I'm missing something that could be an indication, I'm pretty sure it was an original virgin.

There were very insightful posts by KO and O-Lugs that go along with my thinking on posts where people ask the rest of us for a name for their drum set. If your drum set was not pictured in a manufacturer's catalog with a name assigned to the assemblage of drums and go-withs, it is not of any lesser value or quality than a slightly different configuration that is pictured and named in a catalog of the same year as your drums. I understand that there are the *** retentives who MUST have the drum set pictured on page such and such of a particular catalog in the exact same configuration and maybe even the same color. That's OK for them, but certainly not a requirement for me.

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification. Well....I don't know what your assemblage of drums started out as. I don't know of a named configuration that started out with a virgin bass drum -especially a 22".

Totally agree. Was obviously curious to see if what I have was a named set but don't in any way feel it's inferior that it's not. The only thing that matters is how it sounds - and it sounds amazing.

Anything is possible but typically a "virgin" bass drum from that era was probably part of a double bass outfit with the small toms on a stand. Impossible to know for sure of course. It might be part of a larger set (but not one of the catalog ones since the Rock Duo outfit didn't include an 8x12 or 14x14). Without some paperwork from the initial purchase there is really no way of ever knowing but, as stressed above, short of some hard core collectors, it really doesn't matter. As a musical instrument they will work just fine regardless of whether they line up with one of the outfit pre-packs that the marketing department put together and gave a flashy name.