I'm speaking of the Original 68-9 70-1 Fibes.

[img]https://www.drummerworld.com/drummerworld2/bobbycolombydfrr.jpg[/img]

like those from the grey and white amazing 1970 catalog

I like improvisatory jazz and small combo jazz drumming because the ambiguity of it struck me as being curious and contrary to other styles which rely on repetition and obvious structure. It didn't hit me over the head with obviousness like a lot of rock drumming. I could see and hear that the improvising drummers knew exactly what they were doing even though it sounded random.....which antagonized me even more because I wanted to understand what those players were understanding. What did they know that I didn't know? What was the secret? I am kind of a rebellious personality so unpredictability and unexpectedness fit right in, with me. I loved it.

I was never big into the bebop idiom, though....It was too much like big band music -except faster and had trickier melodies.

When people use the term "bop kit" I just apply it as meaning an easily portable kit with small drums (usually an 18" bass drum) and not to mean that they only accommodate bebop. A lot of the early jazz clubs were in NYC and those players had the access to Gretsch drums, whereas we, in the upper country midwest, did not. So that great Gretsch sound got associated with many of those small combo jazz players and the resulting "sound" of those stylists was closely connected to the Gretsch brand.

Gretsch drums -you have to hit them- they don't play- by themselves. Once you commit tho, you're sold on them.

Ludwig/WFL's - you just drop a stick on them- and it (can be seen as) a musical event.

Gretsch ? No way. It's all commitment. Even in pu ssy footing' around with Gretsch drums? you better have an idea and a commitment in mind.

there's not a lot of "shading" in other words. It's Black and White w/ Gretsch. You're never a 'little' pregnant. That's why they're serious drums. Not a lot of leeway. You have to commit. And that's how they present themselves.

You really have to study how to get light and quiet from them. because their natural state is to barrage.

It's those 1/4" die cast hoops every where. They ain't dainty.

But once you commit. the band can fall back on your beat. I mean you are Heard.

You have to look for the rimshots- it's not easy like triple flange drums.

I hate the oversized shells, what the heck were they thinking?

Buy 90s and later

and always Stain

With Gretsch there's no "obsession" over the old ones; because the "new" ones sound -perform and bark- the same

(which equals= New (or close to new) are a better deal all-around.

there's really nothing you can't get that they had before;

Short of a Gladstone Radio City Hall snare.

And that can probably be worked up.

You can't get the old "Rocket" lug but I predict..someday that too will get a reissue..

The Faucet Ts on the 3 ply is about the only thing.

Once addicted to the Gretsch Die cast it's hard to go back and hard to 'hear' anything else.

I put the WFL snares up and I just can't want to hear that 'long' note anymore..reminds me of some Gene Krupa out of the thirties. Like the 'quickness' of the Gretsch. Quick, short, and has everything.

They were likely thinking that with calf heads it wasn't much of a big deal and created the shell molds accordingly ( they aren't really oversized just not as undersized as other makes) . Then plastic heads came into vogue and created an issue, or at least did so when there were no longer distinct perma-tone heads being made ( not just re-labled Remos).

I've read every post in this thread, but that is easily the best explanation I've ever heard for how and why Gretsch drums get that unique sound. I wasn't quite getting the whole Gretsch "thing" myself until you posted this.

Very cool, thanks! Yes Sir

I think “just wow” is enough. It’s all opinion anyway.

One of my most enjoyable snares ever that I coveted through the 70’s was a 10 lug Gretsch cob 41something I really liked it a lot my 2 cents

I have restored and brought back to life many snare drums and drum kits dating back to the ‘20’s(the drums that is, not me!). Several stand out. One of which was an early 50’s Gretsch kit. It came to me completely apart; lugs and hardware in plastic coffee buckets, spray painted gold over the blue sparkle. It was a 50 hour job!

The snare drum was a 6-1/2”x14” Name Band. Once I repaired the throw off upon reassembly, tuned it up, it was something to behold. The 13” ton and 22” bass drum were no different. Pre gray interiors and even date stamps!

I also had a Max Roach snare drum from the early 60’s, never could get a sound from it that I liked.

I guess my point is that I personally wouldn’t shut out a vintage brand because you never know what it may sound like tuned to your liking. It might be the best or worst you’ve ever heard! I guess that’s why Charlie Watts still plays those Gretsch drums, Ludwig Speed Kings, and Rogers hi hat stands. He found his sound and sticks with it!

I understand the approach though, if you’ve found yours with Slingerland, hey, stick with it!