OB!

Gotta laugh! ... you do crack me up! That said, yes indeed ... plus ... at about the same time you mentioned it, I received an email from a dealer/buyer to please possibly shed some light on this set of Slingerland's for the owner. Was all in the timing! That said ...

... after chatting with the owner for quite awhile .. and what a nice guy to boot! .. plus having a look at some hi def pics .. plus .. Slingerfan so graciously checking on the serial numbers on those badges and saving me the time to do so ... well ...

It is a sure bet that this particular set of 1968 Slingerland 80N's DID indeed belong to Buddy. Conclusion reached by: Clear varnished interiors ... aluminum SOM, indicating an early set, most likely in 1968, which badges help confirm ... the moved ride cymbal mount, as I have pics from this era/time with BR playing a set that matches these, although there is no way to know if that set was exactly these, but more on that in a moment ... throne top/trim ... and lastly, the "snare rash/rub" on the back of the 9X13. Then there is the back story on ownership .. Barbara Belle .. so I suspect that this particular set of Slingerland's may have been an east coast set that BR used as he did INDEED have more than one, and definitely stored a set/sets on the east coast. As to just how many sets Buddy went through during his Slingerland endorsement from 1968 to 1978, who knows??!! But there were much more than a few! I have a B&W pic from 1968 showing Buddy working on his Slingerland Artist snare drum .. ( which was indeed the 1st model he played after signing with Slingerland ) .. and you can plainly see the moved ride cymbal mount on the bass drum with the two carriage bolts filling the vacated holes. The time frame and dates, plus the build itself, do indeed line up for this to "possibly" be this set. Certainly one of the sets he had from this time/period for sure though! As to the uneven fade on the wrap...

... well, turns out the owner lived in Southern California for close to 20 years after he got these, and they were set up in a main room that was constantly lit up by strong sun light ... for years! That kind of intense UV assault is probably what turned these as "yellow" as they are, without the very typical Slingerland "green" tint to it's WMP fade. The drums have NOT been altered or rewrapped. They are as was OEM! Goes without saying, none of us KNEW then what UV did to WMP over time, which is why we see so much fade/damage on so many of these drums from this period.

So where does that leave the set then? The owner is exploring a few options, as he does want to sell. There is a dealer/collector interested, and I guess it remains to be seen what happens there with regard to price/deal. Sadly, no one is still alive that can positively say these were Buddy's with proof and/or a COA .. but .. we can dial these in to 95% positive in my humble opinion! Lastly...

... the Ludwig snare drum with this set has NOTHING to do with these drums, or Buddy. He never played this particular model while with Slingerland, or at any time for that matter. It is entirely possible that the "Artist" model snare drum that would have gone with this set was either kept by Buddy, or possibly taken/sold. Hopefully you might have enjoyed, and it was worth the slight wait!

Tommyp

I did, and I am Glad he got to talk with you.

I was about to get Kojak on why that BD is so much less faded. Columbo did well with the FT and badge line up thing.

I did read that he switched to metal snare with that kit, So I thought the Supra might have been it but I also remember seeing him with a metal Slingy?? too. It was short and had the staggered lugs.

Did you make an offer ? You deserve one of his kits.

I knew next to nothing about Buddy until I came here and read your posts, got me interested in him and now I wish I got to see him play live. i missed out on holding sticks "the drum way" for a long time.

[QUOTE=OddBall;450575]I did, and I am Glad he got to talk with you.

I was about to get Kojak on why that BD is so much less faded. Columbo did well with the FT and badge line up thing.

I did read that he switched to metal snare with that kit, So I thought the Supra might have been it but I also remember seeing him with a metal Slingy?? too. It was short and had the staggered lugs.

Did you make an offer ? You deserve one of his kits.

OB!

The snare drum you are thinking of was the 2nd model Buddy played after signing on with Slingerland. He was playing this one as early as late 1968/69, and well BEFORE it showed up in the Slingerland catalog as the 1970 4X14 Buddy Rich. He started with the WMP model, but settled on the COW model. I have both in my BR snare drum history/collection, and both of them are 1st generation builds and have the early black/gold Slingerland badges, as did BR's. I'll attach a pic of each out of the collection for you to see. By the way, not metal!, but real chromed spring steel wrap! Regarding did I make an offer ...

... no, I didn't, and simply because these will "probably" go to a collector that will pay UP a bit. I'm quite pleased with my BR snare drum history/collection, and the fact that I gig on Rogers and Fibes BR model sets .. but yeah .. those would be nice!

Tommyp

Thank You Tommy P. Could you comment on the 9 x 13 tom? The OP claimed it has no vent hole or badge. Is that a known "Buddy" request?

I was talking about that yesterday with the owner, as he asked the same thing! Buddy's only requests on his sets were clear varnished interiors and NO tone controls. He had no preference on vent holes, badges, etc. So, what happened here?! I suspect .. don't know for sure, but it's very plausible .. that whomever was building these at Slingerland back in 1968 ... forgot! We have all seen this to a degree with many different brands, but especially Slingerland! The QC wasn't anywhere near as tight as it is today, that's for sure. I have seen missing vents and badges .. upside down badges .. vents/badges drilled in bizarre locations/panels .. etc. Back then, they were just building drums. There didn't seem to be the intense checking and scrutiny that we see with today's manufacturing. Ludwig was quite guilty of this too back in the day. I doubt that Buddy would have ever even noticed the 9X13 had no vent/badge. Again, no way to absolutely know, but I have seen exactly this many times!

Tommyp

OK. I don't subscribe to the anything goes, chaos on the factory floor school of thought. It is just a bit to easy. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but mostly there was a rule and that is what allows one to spot the exceptions. I have not documented missing vents and badges on drums that should have had them. Upside down and two badges on one grommet; Yes, but not in large numbers. Vents/badges in bizarre locations/panels are only bizarre until you know the rules. Slingerland historian Dr Carl Wenk has explained many of these and it makes sense. For now we can agree that there is no way to absolutely know about this particular 9 x 13. It is helpful to know this is not a common feature of Buddy's kits. Thanks again.

Fair enough!, but nowhere did I say or suggest there was “chaos on the factory floor”, although that was funny! What I did say is that I have seen plenty of manufacturing goofs get shipped/delivered, with a lot of them being badge issues. Certainly more than you are suggesting might have been the case anyway. It definitely happened, and even if it were only one drum every couple of months .. well .. times how many years of manufacture? Point being there would be more than a few. To reiterate, NOT something Buddy requested, so all we can do is surmise. Merely suggested that could be the reason as the rest of the drums have clear/lacquered interiors and are correctly badged. It is a bit of a conundrum!

Tommyp

So Tommy, Why do you think that BD didn't fade as much ? That's quite the difference.

Absolutely no idea!, and the owner and I did talk about that at length too. I can offer this though:

I completely RUINED a MINT set of 1966 Rogers Buddy Rich Headliners in WMP by gigging them in lots of outside venues/theaters. I had just started with the Sinatra Show and was playing these prior to finding my 1965 Rogers Buddy Rich Celebrity's. Anyway ... having ZERO knowledge .. then .. on just what UV exposure will do to the older WMP wraps, I gigged these for years! I swear, one day I took the bass drum out of it's case .. and the drums were ALWAYS cased in between shows/performances .. and it was a DEEP butterscotch "yellow". I freaked! Took the rest of the set out of their cases, and the same .. except .. NOT at the same rate of fade! And THAT is the rub here! Why??!! All were exposed at the same time and level over the years, yet the rate of fade/yellowing was NOT uniform. I only make mention of this as the Slingerland 80N's here seem to be quite similar. So who really knows how the wrap chemistry reacts to UV and at what levels. I had always assumed .. and probably not a good thing to do .. that all the wrap came from the same sheets/batch when they wrap drums ... but perhaps not? Either way ... I RUINED those Rogers in the aesthetics department, but they still played and sounded great of course! Still ... could never get a bead on why/how those drums faded/yellowed at different rates. Yet another conundrum!

Tommyp