At the risk of killing another of your threads Jay

Norma badged kits used those Gretsch knock-off lugs most of the time.

My very first kit (orange sparkle Norma) had them

This old UV faded Norma kit in my display has them as well

This is a seller's picture of a red marine pearl kit I found up in Edmonton Alberta Canada

I have since removed the mis-matched one sided tom

Which has the exact same lugs as your timbale I realize none of this really solves the mystery

Also some of the more modern entry level kits used them

I have them on a Pulse kit and have seen them on 2nd generation Ludwig accent kits

Ah yes, you have the Norma kit that has the same funky wrap as my rocket snare ( same lugs ) Was this Star that did this? And so far we know Norma,Del Ray & Rocket used these. Presumably made by the same company. All the shells I've come across ( at least wood ) have been of the same construction.

Jay there was a nice fellow on the forum here

who posted a thread featuring mainly his Recco drum kit (very unique lugs and super nice snare drum)

Anyway those drums came to him along with two blue sparkle Norma shells

a 20" bass and a 12" mounted tom The bass drum had the original Norma logo reso head

I voiced interest in them for my display and after some time we made a deal on them

The guy really went all out for me to have those two drums THANKS MIKE!! ^5's

Anyway those two Norma drums have the standard Star made Slingerland cloned lugs not the Gretsch ..however the badges are the same as on all Norma drums

so Star is my guess

Hi, Jay,

Have to agree with Kenwood. Those lugs sure look like Stars to me.

Brian

Star rims have flattened ears, Pearl's have round ears. Hoshino's are flat,too but are they in this discussion?

Unless the ears on the rims are a reliable indicator, I will challenge Kenwood on his Star guess.

The only Norma kits I have seen were made by Pearl.

Significant note: I once documented at least 4 variations of the MIJ Slingerland clone lugs. These certainly do not automatically constitute Star, as Pearl made at least 2 of the variations, if not more.

Question for OPer: have these drums been discovered with any other drums which have evidence of the same manufacturer, yet which may yield more clues?

John I would love to see one of those Pearl made Norma kits??

I would not doubt that they exist only that I have never seen one

Like all the rest of the former Star made stuff at some point

the stencil drum building was eventually turned over to either Pearl or Hoshino

Usually there were differences after the switch in the badges like a Star made Stewart having a metal badge

and a Pearl made Stewart in most cases being the foil re-pop

I have never seen a reproduction of the metal Norma badge

in either foil or plastic or even any variation of the original metal one

Del Ray and Norma and Rocket are the only few

that come to mind in terms of the Gretsch knock-off lugs

Now who made those lugs I am not 100% sure of

The reason my guess is Star is I have a partial Norma kit here now

and these two pieces I have are Star all the way

unlike most Norma kits including my first, which all had the Gretsch clone hardware

So since we already know Star made stencil kits with certain badges and names

until they stopped to form Tama leaving the stencil building and any demand for those former Star badged names to Pearl and Hoshino (not the other way around)

We can assume from that with some degree on confidence,

that If there exists a Star made Norma badged kit it would have pre-dated any Norma kit made by Pearl

attached are several seller's pics of the partial kit I got from Mike

It is identical to almost every Star kit which in this and many other cases was built to clone Slingerland

No way are these drums Pearl

This is the first time I have ever seen a Star made Norma kit. I whole-heartedly agree that what you have there is a Star made kit. Therefore, I believe (at least at the moment) that Norma was made by both Star and Pearl. Don't you wish we had a list of all the retailers that originated these stencils? (Who/where was the origin of Norma?) Then we could just go and ask them. Yes, some indeed are still alive and I would bet some of those retailers would still be in business (though likely in rare cases).

I will try to track down the gent that I sold the Gold Glass Glitter Norma kit to - with the Gretsch clone lugs

I guess my question for you is: Have you ever seen a Star-made kit with Gretsch clone lugs? I have not, and that is the biggest basis for my opinion here about this timbale. BTW - no evidence here that indicates what lug was original to the drum. ArchAngel believes that both these lugs were by the same manufacturer, and I ask - on what basis? Just because hole spacing is the same, it does not constitute proof of same manufacturer.

Ultimately I do not believe there is a conclusive basis for the ID of this drum. The rim ears could be, but how do we now the rims is original to the drum? Any indicative clue on the shell would surely be strong.

Someday I will finally be able to refer to other members by first name instead of username!

Hi Jay!

Hi Brian!

Hi Kenny!

Someday when I finally make it to Chicago I would like to assemble an MIJ enthusiast rendezvous. Have you guys done that yet?