Phonics are great drums, I've got three Phonic kits: one bop kit, one 20, 13, 16 and one 22, 13, 14, 16. I prefer the smaller size bass drums, definitely for jazz.

Phonics take great to high tunings, the thick shells don't choke easily.

I have no experience of Champions so will pass on that one.

Best,

Magnus

thanks Magnus! I wish this kit had a 20 bd but they come up so infrequently. cheers

Ive heard from some that phonics are 'diva' to tune but once tuned , sound great - any phonics owners can comment on that - Im not overly experienced and and still refining my tuning skills - Ive heard also that champions are much easier - any thoughts?

I can tell you that Phonics are Rock drums. Mine have never seen anything but black dot Emperor.

Champions are six ply and I think you can reach a jazz sound better on them.

Like Mangus said, Phonics are heavy and I can`t thin k of a jazz drummer that used heavy shells.

Jack Dejohnette, for one, played Phonics, and with Miles Davis, too. Also, the Phonic bop kits are thought to be the bee's knees in jazz drums by some. Phonics are heavy, but definitely well suited for jazz.

They are loud (project well), so you need to keep that in mind.

/Magnus

I am not sure if Phonics are more difficult to tune than most other drums. I recently bought a Gretsch Round Badge kit, and one thing that struck me is how easy it is to tune. But that doesn't mean that Phonics are notoriously not so.

Phonics, to me, have a very clear, timpani-like tone, when tuned high.

The 22, 13, 14, 16 configuration is the most common. Bop kits are hard to come by, and quite expensive. Both the 18" bass drum and the 14x14 floor tom are rare and sought after. In my experience, the 20" bass drums are even more rare, but - funnily enough - not as popular and expensive as the 18" basses.

Hope this helps.

/Magnus

Phonics are it for me as well, I just love my bop kit(12,14,18 in rosewood). I think they tune up nicely and if you're going towards the higher end of tuning then the phonics will suit you well.

As Magnus said, the 20's are kind of harder to find, both 18 and 20 will cost you a bit. The last 18"(last week) sold on ebay for $799 and I don't think it had the single tom post. It was a very nice original wrap drum, 20's go for around 400-500 or so.

When I started out on my quest for a rosewood kit I was only going to do a 12", 14(mounted tom) and an 18" floor tom to bass conversion. That might be an option. If you do go that route I can help walk you through it. The problem you encounter with sonor 18" floors is that they are drilled for 9 lugs and they are about a half an inch closer to the bearing edge so you really need to get shorter claws and t-rods. It's much easier to use the tom with just a riser and play that way. When I did my conversion(18x16) I was very happy with it as a bass, it had a little more volume than a factory bass(18x14). Since then I found a rosewood 18 and put my floor tom back on my rock kit.

Good luck on your search, Gary.

thanks everyone - what a community!!!!!

A while back I was considering Canopus M1 V-60 - their vintage style drums that don't have a typical 45 degree bearing edge - when asking about higher tunings and ability to also tune lower (for rock etc), Canopus replied:

Thank you very much for your inquiry about the M1 drum kit.

Regular M1kit has round edge and it's more suitable for Jazz high tuning.

And they went on to suggest a 45 if I want to also do lower tunings. In any case, Im leaning champions due to their round bearing edge, which I gather is similar to both earlier sonor kits and kits from some US makers in 50s and 60s. Decisions, decisions - both are out of the question!