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Buddy Rich vs Louie Bellson

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From Tommyp

Close enough for jazz as the saying goes! He was with Ludwig from 1946 to 1959. Ludwig again from 1977 to 1982, but... all of 1982 was WITHOUT an endorsement deal with Ludwig, which is why there were periods in 1982 where Buddy did NOT have a Ludwig logo on his front/reso bass drum head. Then, yes... back to Slingerland in 1983!, but again with no endorsement deal as the 40's era Slingerland RK's were a gift from Joe MacSweeney of the EAMES drum company. You are correct in that Buddy had NO deal with any drum company from 1982 to his passing in 1987! The Zildjian cymbal company never abandoned him though, and Buddy continued to play/endorse Zildjian's up 'till the end. Word is/was...... that DW and Buddy were going to get together and Buddy would be endorsed again!... unfortunately, he passed away, and that was that. I had read that DW made up a 14X28 bass drum for him at his request! That would have been something to hear and see!Tommyp

I couldn't see Buddy Using DW. Not saying he wouldn't but When I think Buddy Rich I think Vintage Drums.

Posted on 9 years ago
#11
Posts: 2406 Threads: 55

From Drumguy1988

I couldn't see Buddy Using DW. Not saying he wouldn't but When I think Buddy Rich I think Vintage Drums.

Well... I have been at it with regard to BR for close to 30 years! This is an all inclusive pursuit, meaning... chatting with guys that played for him, drum company executives, people that knew him personally, etc. Add into that the fact that I play ALL Buddy Rich models/configurations, and well... Interestingly, I have been approached about a book! This would be dealing with all the snare drums he actively played between the years of 1950 and 1982. For the record, there were 15 of them! I have collected them all over the years, and that is part of how I unearthed so much of this info. Rob Cook invited me to display my "Snare Drums of Buddy Rich" collection at this years Chicago Vintage Drum Show. I will be attending, drums in tow! Regarding BR and DW:

Well, I know where you're coming from with that comment! .. but .. bear in mind: You think of vintage when you think of Buddy Rich, right? Well, even IF he had gone with DW back in 1987, would those not be vintage today? They would be 28 years old. 25 years is considered "antique". That said though, he was definitely interested in an endorsement.. and .. DW would have built him whatever he wanted. As mentioned previously, Buddy requested a 28" bass drum! Now THAT... is vintage! You know what's kinda funny about the whole DW thing... Buddy did NOT care for the DW lug design. He thought they were ugly and looked like little clocks! I guess he was willing to live with that though.

Tommyp

Posted on 9 years ago
#12
Guest

From Tommyp

Well... I have been at it with regard to BR for close to 30 years! This is an all inclusive pursuit, meaning... chatting with guys that played for him, drum company executives, people that knew him personally, etc. Add into that the fact that I play ALL Buddy Rich models/configurations, and well... Interestingly, I have been approached about a book! This would be dealing with all the snare drums he actively played between the years of 1950 and 1982. For the record, there were 15 of them! I have collected them all over the years, and that is part of how I unearthed so much of this info. Rob Cook invited me to display my "Snare Drums of Buddy Rich" collection at this years Chicago Vintage Drum Show. I will be attending, drums in tow! Regarding BR and DW:Well, I know where you're coming from with that comment! .. but .. bear in mind: You think of vintage when you think of Buddy Rich, right? Well, even IF he had gone with DW back in 1987, would those not be vintage today? They would be 28 years old. 25 years is considered "antique". That said though, he was definitely interested in an endorsement.. and .. DW would have built him whatever he wanted. As mentioned previously, Buddy requested a 28" bass drum! Now THAT... is vintage! You know what's kinda funny about the whole DW thing... Buddy did NOT care for the DW lug design. He thought they were ugly and looked like little clocks! I guess he was willing to live with that though. Tommyp

The encyclopedia comment was meant as a compliment just incase you thought other wise. I'm a rookie on this forum.

I like people that have a passion for things. Mine would be DEEP PURPLE, IAN PAICE, LUDWIG DRUMS, and Classic Mopars. I don't exactly everything about them but I pick up things here and there.

We need people like you who have researched Buddy. It keeps his memory alive as well as educates people.

STUPID QUESTION ALERT but You must have seen him back in the day. Did you ever get to meet him????

Posted on 9 years ago
#13
Guest

From Tommyp

Well... I have been at it with regard to BR for close to 30 years! This is an all inclusive pursuit, meaning... chatting with guys that played for him, drum company executives, people that knew him personally, etc. Add into that the fact that I play ALL Buddy Rich models/configurations, and well... Interestingly, I have been approached about a book! This would be dealing with all the snare drums he actively played between the years of 1950 and 1982. For the record, there were 15 of them! I have collected them all over the years, and that is part of how I unearthed so much of this info. Rob Cook invited me to display my "Snare Drums of Buddy Rich" collection at this years Chicago Vintage Drum Show. I will be attending, drums in tow! Regarding BR and DW:Well, I know where you're coming from with that comment! .. but .. bear in mind: You think of vintage when you think of Buddy Rich, right? Well, even IF he had gone with DW back in 1987, would those not be vintage today? They would be 28 years old. 25 years is considered "antique". That said though, he was definitely interested in an endorsement.. and .. DW would have built him whatever he wanted. As mentioned previously, Buddy requested a 28" bass drum! Now THAT... is vintage! You know what's kinda funny about the whole DW thing... Buddy did NOT care for the DW lug design. He thought they were ugly and looked like little clocks! I guess he was willing to live with that though. Tommyp

You have every make of kit buddy played. Impressive. Even the late 70's - early 80's WMP 6-ply Ludwigs. Those I have to say are my favorite out of all the drums he used. I thought they had the best sound. My opinion of course. The others woud have been his 60's Rogers. Another beautiful sounding kit.

Posted on 9 years ago
#14
Posts: 2406 Threads: 55

From Drumguy1988

The encyclopedia comment was meant as a compliment just incase you thought other wise. I'm a rookie on this forum.I like people that have a passion for things. Mine would be DEEP PURPLE, IAN PAICE, LUDWIG DRUMS, and Classic Mopars. I don't exactly everything about them but I pick up things here and there.We need people like you who have researched Buddy. It keeps his memory alive as well as educates people. STUPID QUESTION ALERT but You must have seen him back in the day. Did you ever get to meet him????

THANK YOU!, and yes... I knew you meant it in a complimentary way! I'm the Super Moderator.. ( as it's called ) .. on this forum, and have been here for 10 years!, so... a lot of the regulars are quite aware of my Buddy Rich research/knowledge, probably to the point of rollin' their eyes! To answer your question:

Yes indeed! Saw Buddy LIVE 5 times between 1972 and 1978. Met with him one on one in his dressing room in 1973, and what a story that is! I was but 17, he was my idol, and I had balls made out of titanium... then. Are you any other way when you're 17?! It was really great as not all that many get to have a private audience with him. Still, it wasn't without it's slightly frightening moments! A memory that I cherish though... and enjoy telling!

Tommyp

Posted on 9 years ago
#15
Posts: 2406 Threads: 55

From Drumguy1988

You have every make of kit buddy played. Impressive. Even the late 70's - early 80's WMP 6-ply Ludwigs. Those I have to say are my favorite out of all the drums he used. I thought they had the best sound. My opinion of course. The others woud have been his 60's Rogers. Another beautiful sounding kit.

No... not every kit he played... every snare drum!, and specifically the drums between 1950 and 1982. There are 15 of them. Each one correct as to year.. manufacturer.. model .. wrap and hardware.. just as Buddy played it. Regarding BR model drum sets though:

I have two that are actual BR models:

1950 WFL Buddy Rich Super Classic

1965 Rogers Buddy Rich Celebrity

Both these are correct as they both consist of:

14X24

9X13

16X16

16X16

5.5X14 ( WFL )

5X14 ( Rogers Dynasonic )

All correct hardware

As the SM on the forum, I get to have a little pic/Avatar. It's up in the top left corner. Have a look as those are my 1965 Rogers Buddy Rich Celebrity's. That is the set that I gig 95% of the time. If you look through the Drum Image Gallery you can find more pics of both these sets.. or .. click my username which will bring you to my "about me" page... and there are pics there too. I will say...

... as big a fan of BR as I am, I have ALWAYS thought he sounded the best when he was playing Rogers! Notice I said "sounded", not played, as Buddy always played his tail off! Certain drums just sound better then others, and for me... his Rogers period was it! Most people associate him with Slingerland, and with good reason. He was with that company for 9 years straight!.. and .. he was truly most visible during this period, well... more so than when he was with Rogers comparatively speaking. When BR was with Harry James in the early 60's, those Rogers just killed. Then there was "Swingin' New Big Band" and "Sounds of 66" with Sammy Davis Jr. Rogers! I must add... this is just my opinion, and as such it is subjective. I always wanted a set of Rogers Buddy Rich Celebrity's, and I finally found some a little over 10 years ago. I restored them, and have been gigging them ever since!

Tommyp

Posted on 9 years ago
#16
Posts: 5356 Threads: 87

Tommy do you or anyone know where any of Buddy's Rogers drums are today? I've seen his Ludwigs, Slingerlands etc..... but haven't seen one of his old Rogers kits. BTW I never noticed your the only one here with a avatar. :o

Glenn.

Not a guru just havin fun with some old dusty drums.
Posted on 9 years ago
#17
Posts: 9005 Threads: 266

Not for anything, but do you think the fact that Buddy's riser is one foot taller than Lou's had something to do with a request from BR? Just asking. Is that the kind of thing/request that Buddy would make? Does it fit his M.O.?

Just curious. Other than somebody asking for it, there's no rhyme or reason why both risers shouldn't be on the same level.

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 9 years ago
#18
Posts: 2406 Threads: 55

From FFR428

Tommy do you or anyone know where any of Buddy's Rogers drums are today? I've seen his Ludwigs, Slingerlands etc..... but haven't seen one of his old Rogers kits. BTW I never noticed your the only one here with a avatar. :o

Glenn!

Well, there were TWO of His Rogers kits that I know of. One of them has been compromised, so it is now considered a "basket case". The guy that had them gave them to his son.. bear in mind this set WAS Buddy's! .. and his son PAINTED THEM SOLID BLACK as he thought the WMP looked dated, which at the time, for a kid, they did. From what I understand, they were also DRILLED for other mounts. There really was NO vintage scene then. But still... these were Buddy Rich's actual drums!!!!! SIGH. Okay... the 2nd set I know about is still in pretty much pristine condition. I know who has them, but he is extremely PRIVATE and does not wish to go public with them at this point. I absolutely LOVE mine!, but I would really enjoy seeing those! Maybe just rub up against 'em and try and grab some BR DNA!!! Being Rogers, wow... just incredible. Both Buddy and Louie Bellson had CLEAR interiors that were lacquered.. no grey paint! .. so that would be what to look for in addition to dating the set by it's build.. wrap.. hardware.

Ah... the Avatar. Funny, no?! And you never noticed!

Tommyp

Posted on 9 years ago
#19
Posts: 2406 Threads: 55

From Purdie Shuffle

Not for anything, but do you think the fact that Buddy's riser is one foot taller than Lou's had something to do with a request from BR? Just asking. Is that the kind of thing/request that Buddy would make? Does it fit his M.O.?Just curious. Other than somebody asking for it, there's no rhyme or reason why both risers shouldn't be on the same level.John

John!

That is an excellent question... and one I had pondered since I saw this for the first time! My honest opinion? Buddy was KING! Who can honestly say if it was requested.. ( and it may have been ) .. but .. Johnny Carson was a HUGE BR fan and friend, so I think it might have been done out of his respect for Buddy. Louie was a GREAT player!!!, but Buddy was... well, Buddy! There was no other! Later on, when Buddy and Ed Shaughnessy did the same type of thing, they WERE on the same level set up wise!

Tommyp

Posted on 9 years ago
#20
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