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Buddy Rich vs Louie Bellson

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Found this Mind blowing clip of Buddy Rich and Louie Bellson going head to head on the Tonight show in 1969. 2 of my favorite Jazz drummers battling it out with in my opinion with NO clear winner. To say who's better can't be done. You may prefer one's style over the other but as I said neither one was better than the other.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AipG7UccaZw"]Buddy Rich v Louie Bellson Tonight Show 1969 - YouTube[/ame]

Posted on 9 years ago
#1
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I saw it when it originally aired on the tonight show !

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 9 years ago
#2
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From vintagemore2000

I saw it when it originally aired on the tonight show !

As did I!... and I have a MINT HD copy right from NBC. I've had it for years! You had to order direct back then. Of interest: Buddy had just left Rogers, opening the door for LB to be their top guy.. so .. this piece is just great as it shows each of them representing different drum companies, with BR playing his then NEW Slingerland's with the also NEW Slingerland Buddy Rich 4X14 16 lug in WMP. The playing is of course off the charts. Fabulous clip!

Tommyp

Posted on 9 years ago
#3
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It would be nice If the quality was better but It's still just incredible to watch.

I read somewhere Buddy Left Rogers in about 1965/66, went to Fibes until 1967, gave his fibes kit away at one of his gigs to a lady who's son was a huge fan of his.

Posted on 9 years ago
#4
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From Drumguy1988

It would be nice If the quality was better but It's still just incredible to watch.I read somewhere Buddy Left Rogers in about 1965/66, went to Fibes until 1967, gave his fibes kit away at one of his gigs to a lady who's son was a huge fan of his.

Yes indeed it is! Your timeline is almost correct... but not quite. I've have researched BR and his endorsement/equipment timeline to death... although enjoyed every minute of it! That said, here's the skinny:

Buddy left Rogers in 1967... went to Trixon/Vox... then Fibes... and settled on a deal with Slingerland in early 1968. So, this clip being from 1969 would place this particular set as Buddy's 2nd set from Slingerland... although that all happened within a years time! His 1st Slingerland set had a rail consolette tom mount as well as the Slingerland "Artist" snare drum which was later named The Buddy Rich Artist. When the Set-o-matic tom mount came out Buddy went with that as well as the then NEW 4x14 Buddy Rich snare drum which he is playing in this clip. That drum wasn't even cataloged/offered 'till 1970... although it could be had/ordered from Slingerland earlier than that. I have a 1969 in my BR snare drum collection. The EXACT same year/build shown in this clip! As to the giving away the Fibes story:

True! I met the 2nd owner of that set in 2005... but he wouldn't part with them... then. He DID supply me with a pic of the prototype Fibes 690/COF that was Buddy's though as it came with the set. I spent the next 7 years looking for that snare drum... and finally found it. Restored it completely, and it is now in my BR snare drum collection as well. HARD to find, and probably rarer then hen's teeth! Donn Bennett now owns that Fibes set, and it is for sale... but at $29,000.00 which is out of reach for many, especially so nowadays. True story though! BR gave away TONS of equipment over the years. Wish it would have been to me!

Tommyp

Posted on 9 years ago
#5
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I forgot about Tristan/Vox. Didn't play them very long did he. Or Fibes.

He play WFL in the late 40's up to what 1960. Then went to Ludwig in 1978 to about 1982. Then played an old Slingerland radio king til his death. He wasn't endorsing anyone those last 5 years was he???

Posted on 9 years ago
#6
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From Drumguy1988

I forgot about Tristan/Vox. Didn't play them very long did he. Or Fibes.He play WFL in the late 40's up to what 1960. Then went to Ludwig in 1978 to about 1982. Then played an old Slingerland radio king til his death. He wasn't endorsing anyone those last 5 years was he???

Close enough for jazz as the saying goes! He was with Ludwig from 1946 to 1959. Ludwig again from 1977 to 1982, but... all of 1982 was WITHOUT an endorsement deal with Ludwig, which is why there were periods in 1982 where Buddy did NOT have a Ludwig logo on his front/reso bass drum head. Then, yes... back to Slingerland in 1983!, but again with no endorsement deal as the 40's era Slingerland RK's were a gift from Joe MacSweeney of the EAMES drum company. You are correct in that Buddy had NO deal with any drum company from 1982 to his passing in 1987! The Zildjian cymbal company never abandoned him though, and Buddy continued to play/endorse Zildjian's up 'till the end. Word is/was...

... that DW and Buddy were going to get together and Buddy would be endorsed again!... unfortunately, he passed away, and that was that. I had read that DW made up a 14X28 bass drum for him at his request! That would have been something to hear and see!

Tommyp

Posted on 9 years ago
#7
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"...NO deal with any drum company from 1982 to his passing in 1987!"

What were these companies thinking? He played Trixon? I had no idea. Thanks Tommy as usual.

The greatest gift you can give your family and the world is a healthy you. - Joyce Meyer
Posted on 9 years ago
#8
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From larryz

"...NO deal with any drum company from 1982 to his passing in 1987!"What were these companies thinking? He played Trixon? I had no idea. Thanks Tommy as usual.

larryz!

You know... as big a fan of BR's as I am.. ( ya think??!! ) .. facts always prevail, and the facts are:

Buddy was extremely... difficult. In the beginning, and say through the 70's, it was put up with by the drum companies as he was after all, Buddy Rich! But, as time went on, and other types of music and drum heroes came into focus, well... Buddy didn't seem to carry the clout with the drum companies that he once did .. and .. they had other "drum stars" to take up that slack. Plus, Buddy had a monetary deal/compensation as well with these companies in addition to the drums/hardware, and they found out they did NOT have to do that anymore either. BR's Ludwig endorsement was the last one he would have when it ended in 1982, and agreed!... Buddy Rich? No drum company endorsement??!! Sad. But... some of it was brought on by his own doing. Please don't misunderstand though, Buddy was still revered by the drum companies and drummers alike!, they just didn't want to deal with him or pay out "the bucks" when they no longer had to. Would have been GREAT had Buddy not passed when he did as DW was all set to go!, and buddy would have had another endorsement. I have to also add that towards the end of his life, he mellowed out quite a bit from how he used to be, so in that regard, I'll bet his deal with DW would have lasted 'till the end. regarding Trixon/Vox:

YES! Unbelievable, but true! He needed a deal/drums after leaving Rogers, and Trixon/Vox stepped up.. including .. a monetary compensation package which just wasn't done then! He stayed with Trixon/Vox very briefly as the drums just weren't up to his standards and use. So even with the fact that they were paying him, he still split!... and went to Fibes! That didn't last much longer as he LOVED the Fibes snare drum!, but didn't care for the rest of the drums. Not in quality... but in sound. To my knowledge, and from what I have been able to dig up, Fibes never paid Buddy a cent. He did get the drums FREE though! The post script to all of this would be the fact that Buddy played a Fibes 690/COF snare drum off and on between 1966 and 1976 irrespective of what drum company he was with and being paid by at the time! Only Buddy could get away with that!

Tommyp

Posted on 9 years ago
#9
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From Tommyp

Close enough for jazz as the saying goes! He was with Ludwig from 1946 to 1959. Ludwig again from 1977 to 1982, but... all of 1982 was WITHOUT an endorsement deal with Ludwig, which is why there were periods in 1982 where Buddy did NOT have a Ludwig logo on his front/reso bass drum head. Then, yes... back to Slingerland in 1983!, but again with no endorsement deal as the 40's era Slingerland RK's were a gift from Joe MacSweeney of the EAMES drum company. You are correct in that Buddy had NO deal with any drum company from 1982 to his passing in 1987! The Zildjian cymbal company never abandoned him though, and Buddy continued to play/endorse Zildjian's up 'till the end. Word is/was...... that DW and Buddy were going to get together and Buddy would be endorsed again!... unfortunately, he passed away, and that was that. I had read that DW made up a 14X28 bass drum for him at his request! That would have been something to hear and see!Tommyp

You're a regular Buddy Rich Encyclopedia. I only no what I've read in magazines, Rob Cooks Ludwig Book, Those Buddy Rich Jazz video Biography's etc. I haven't really gone and done extensive research. IAN PAICE yes but Buddy No.

Posted on 9 years ago
#10
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