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Vintage drum playability

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Hi All,

I'm looking to purchase a drum set, and I love the idea of it being vintage, but I also need it to stand up to some heavy playing and a specific sound. I'm wondering if through the years drums were built more heavy duty to accommodate contemporary sound and level of playing? I hit pretty hard, Rock/ Hip-Hop style.

I'm looking at Vintage Ludwig drums. Could a Hollywood 22 x14 kick be tuned give me a low tight punchy thumpy hip hop sound? Or, should I be looking more in the 70's era?

Thanks

Posted on 15 years ago
#1
Posts: 2628 Threads: 40
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[COLOR="DarkRed"]Hi Steve.

IMHO, the main issue isn't so much the date of production of the drums, as the shell type.

Generally, older drums, pre-70's were thin-ply shells with reinforcing rings/thicker bearing edges top and bottom. there are exceptions to this (Gretsch shells and early Pearl/Japanese shells, for example).

When people speak of the "vintage sound" they are most often referring to these sort of shells. Large surface area on the edges and a thin shell means a lot of vibration is transferred from the head to the shell...resulting in what people coin a "woody", "resonant" tone.

Look at the bearing edges of old Ludwigs, Sligerlands, premiers, etc. they are quite broad...a lotta head contact. Rogers was the first mfr. to start sharpening their edges on their thin-shelled kits....it was a spec which was a good 15 years ahead of it's time.

Shells became thicker in the '70's to accommodate heavier hitters, louder music, etc. So you find companies such as Ludwig, Slingerland, even Gretsch start offering up thicker shells, with sharper edges. 5-ply, 6-ply, 7-ply. Then Tama came on the scene with some very good quality thick shells on their mid-higher end kits...mahogany, birch, maple. Pearl followed suit. This narrower edge, as I mentioned before, allowed the head to vibrate more freely, and the thick shell started acting more like a 'megaphone' which amplified the sound as opposed to a 'sponge' which soaked up the vibration and filtered the sound thru the wood. So, in these thicker shelled kits, the sound bounces around inside the shell a lot, thus the resonant head becomes enlivened and very important to tune properly.

(Disclaimer: I am speaking in generalities...there are of course particular exceptions, but these are the general ideas and specifications of older drums).

Now, this isn't to say that loud rock players don't use thin-shelled kits, because they can and do. Nor s it to say that Jazz/Folk players don't use thick-shelled kits, because they do. Head selection and your particular technique comes into play, too.

So, if what you need is a sound with a lotta punch and volume and a fair amount of decay/sustain, probably a thicker-shelled kit is the direction you wanna go. If what you are after is a woody, resonant sound with a slappier sort of attack and a quicker decay, then a thin-shelled kit may be for you.

I know a lotta players who play old '50's-60's kits and hit them hard...structurally speaking, they can take it. It becomes more a question of sound quality and volume (volume altered by the reality of whether the kit is gonna be mic'ed or not, too)...

OK, I'll stop now...[/COLOR]Coffee Break2

www.2ndending.com
Posted on 15 years ago
#2
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Dang Jaye that was good!!

30's Radio King - 26, 13, 13, 16
49 - WFL Ray McKinley - 26, 13, 16
58 - Slingerland Duco
58 - Slingerland Krupa Deluxe
70 - Ludwig Champagne Sparkle - 20, 12, 14
70 - Ludwig Champagne Sparkle - 22 (need), 13, 16
And some others..
Posted on 15 years ago
#3
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From GoneDrumming

Dang Jaye that was good!!

Ditto! There is was...

1970 Ludwig Downbeat
1965 Ludwig Hollywood
1970 Ludwig Jazzette
Posted on 15 years ago
#4
Posts: 3972 Threads: 180
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Hey Jaye! What you say!!!

So, if you want a more vintage kit than the new stuff...and you want it to have "that" sound while you hit harder and such...

Can I suggest the 6 ply Ludwig drums from the late 70's to the early 80's? They are sweet drums, have serious versatility - change the head or tension and change the sound. GREAT projection and nice resonance. Plus, they are Luddy's and come in lots of neato flavors. That Modular Hardware will DEFINITELY stand up to the riggers of the road. Once set, you couldn't move the tom with a doggone hammer. Just my nickel's worth of advice.

Posted on 15 years ago
#5
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Steve-O,

I've got a pair of '60's Ludwig basses, just experimenting as shown below Hmmmm

with powerstrokes on both sides of the right drum and it sound great. depending on what i'm playing i hit them right hard and they sound ridiculous. 3 ply or bust (of course, I've never played any 6 ply ludwig's...)!!!

[IMG]http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2772/50/47/1371250302/n1371250302_346303_1704823.jpg[/IMG]

THe set below, also 3 ply, is the set I'll be doing my 'very heavy rock' thing with (course now, these are oversized, but still 3 ply):

[IMG]http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1963/50/47/1371250302/n1371250302_201522_6977.jpg[/IMG]

Posted on 15 years ago
#6
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From mcjnic

Hey Jaye! What you say!!!So, if you want a more vintage kit than the new stuff...and you want it to have "that" sound while you hit harder and such...Can I suggest the 6 ply Ludwig drums from the late 70's to the early 80's? They are sweet drums, have serious versatility - change the head or tension and change the sound. GREAT projection and nice resonance. Plus, they are Luddy's and come in lots of neato flavors. That Modular Hardware will DEFINITELY stand up to the riggers of the road. Once set, you couldn't move the tom with a doggone hammer. Just my nickel's worth of advice.

I can attest to this.....6-plys are probably more like the sound you're after and you can practically stand on that modular hardware without worries....

Posted on 15 years ago
#7
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Thanks to all, especially Jaye...damn, you broke it down!

Looks like my sound might be a 6ply kick and a 3 ply snare!

Posted on 15 years ago
#8
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From Steve-o

Thanks to all, especially Jaye...damn, you broke it down!Looks like my sound might be a 6ply kick and a 3 ply snare!

That's a great choice Steve-o, I have 3 6 ply kicks, and a 3 ply 24 that also kicks a$$, but the 6 ply are really built like tanks, and the toms I have in 6 ply also are awesome.

It might actually be cheaper to get a 6 ply kit as the 3 ply are really desirable and the prices are WACK man!!

Things to share
Thanks are implied
You are always welcome
Listen To BONHAM here!!
ViperSpace
Posted on 15 years ago
#9
Posts: 2628 Threads: 40
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[COLOR="DarkRed"]You are welcome...I think I have exceeded my monthly quota of verbiage on that last reply...so I am gonna go away for a while now.....Toilet

Seriously...Ludwigs b/o badge are a good choice...so are Slingerlands, which made good thicker-shelled kits in the earlt to mid '70's (be careful, late 70's onward they changed from maple/poplar heavy 5-ply to thick 3-ply poplar/maple....and those shells pretty much suck) You can tell by looking at shell interior, because poplar is very rough to the touch, almost sandpaper-y. But the 5-ply Slingy maple-poplar-maple with the lacquered interiors, those are good shells, too.

I dunno if Premier ever went high-end with thicker shells...i know they used cheap, imported Japanese shells (always painted black); but dunno if they ever made nice birch 5 or 6-plys, etc.

Rogers last run of XP-8 shells also fit the bill. Some folks love 'em. I actually "mind" them not for their actual construction, but for the fact that this was when Rogers started importing their shells...so to me, it was the harbinger of the end of the real Rogers company (although the hardware and finishes were still made by them). But some folks claim those to be good sounding drums, too.

Then something like the Tama mahogany Superstars or birch Granstars (granted, those are later '80's drums), also superb shells.

[/COLOR]

www.2ndending.com
Posted on 15 years ago
#10
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