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1959 Super Classic Buddy Rich Set Up

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From Tommyp

Hello Dave!... and THANKS for the nice words regarding my drums. Glad you like 'em!... and the background for your desktop too?! The drums are flattered!! :-DBeing the huge BR fan I am, I am very well versed on his many drums/endorsements, but have to admit that Rogers, and specifically Buddy's Rogers endorsement period, are my personal favorite and the one's I know cold off the top of my head, although I have snare drums/sets from BR's career spanning the years between 1949 to 1979... so that said: I will tell you that Buddy's 2nd WFL/Ludwig endorsement period was from 1946 to 1959, and that is the exact era we are talking about here... so then I went back and checked WFL/Ludwig catalogs up to 1957 as that is the latest one I have before 1960, and YES!... the #900P 51/2X14 snare drum was still in fact called the "Buddy Rich Model Super Classic". After Buddy split to go to Rogers in 1960, the Ludwig #900P snare drum was renamed just the "Super Classic", and the 61/2X14 Ray McKinley became the "Symphonic Model", which is how most guys remember it today. So yes, that is correct Dave!!The "problem" across the board with ORIGINAL WMP has always been the yellowing/fading, and my WFL's are no different in that regard. They have changed over the years, but not too horribly, as the pics I showed you would attest. My 1955 BR Model snare drum is a very close if not almost perfect match to the rest of the set, which worked out real well! I keep these drums cased at all times unless they're being played/gigged of course, so that does keep the "yellowing" at bay. With that said, I prefer playing the Rogers and use those 99.9% of the time for gigging, although I have brought the WFL's out here and there depending on the gig/venue, but always inside venues so as not to suffer a lot more in the way of UV damage, which of course just speeds along the yellowing of WMP.Speaking of your Aqua 1955 WFL's: I have the 1949 3X13 Buddy Rich Be-bop model snare drum in WMP with the "beer-tap" strainer which is the father to yours! :-D Buddy requested Ludwig build that drum for him, and he played it with a lot of the smaller groups he was working with at the time. Again at three plies w/rings, it also has a relatively low fundamental, but the 3X13 size actually works in this regard, and the drum has a nice "higher" pitch to it, but retains a lot of that "woody warmth" that the WFL/Ludwig drums of this era were known for!I'll attach another pic of the WFL BR model set, but this time you can see what the WMP really looks like as there is a lot more depth of color in this pic. Because of the low stage light... ( these were taken right after sound check ) ... the cymbals have almost completely disappeared!... but the WMP wrap is pretty accurate in color. Not too "white" anymore... but not that yellow either! :-DTommyp

flowers2Wow man you sure know your stuff! Very cool Tommy. Do you also have the same Buddy sizes in Rogers? 24 Bass? If you have time at some point,I sure would like to see a picture or three. Have you tried out the Earthtones at all? Tommy I just found your pictures in the Gallery, Again very very impressive!Thanks again, DaveCool Dude

Posted on 15 years ago
#11
Posts: 2212 Threads: 95
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I have been thinking about calfskin for one of my snares. Do the earth tones have a larger size for older drums?

Posted on 15 years ago
#12
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Hey Dave!...

THANKS for the very kind words on my drums!... and I was going to suggest that you have a look in the gallery as I have put up more than a few pics here and there! I will tell you this though: On my 1965 Rogers Buddy Rich Celebrity set, it is in fact a 14X22 bass drum, and not the 14X24. Interestingly, Buddy always played a 24", but the drum companies most always cataloged the 22" with his set-up, although the 24" could be ordered in place of the 22"... but not a lot of guys did that. Also, BR played two 16X16 floor toms for his ENTIRE career... ( and truth be told, in the earlier days, he actually DID play the 2nd 16X16, it wasn't just there to hold his towel! :-D ) ... but most drum companies offered his set-up with only ONE floor tom! I always thought that was strange as the two 16X16 floor toms are almost signature! Slingerland was the first to offer Buddy's actual set-up with the two 16X16's... and ... you could substitute a 14X24 bass drum at no extra charge too. Anyway, that's why a lot of BR set-ups don't have the 2nd 16X16 today... ( with the exception of Slingerland of course ) ... they weren't bought that way originally!

Tommyp

Posted on 15 years ago
#13
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From NewDecade

Hey Jazzbird, I see that you mentioned calf heads. You may already be aware of these - http://www.earthtoneheads.com/

Hi Lucky, They show a 24". You could contact them if you need a larger size. They also have some reviews on their site. I'd like to try them myself. Good Luck.:D

Posted on 15 years ago
#14
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Hi Tommy, I imagine even if a guy wanted to, it would be very difficult to find a 24" perfect enough to match the rest of your Rogers kit. That kit looks so spectacular with all the right hardware. They sure did things right. I was watching the Buddy Rich Jazz Legend DVD the other day and noticed on a clip from 1959 his bass drum looked like it may have been a 22". I'm not quite sure, It was a small group. So what's next Tommy. Let me guess you have a 1968 BR Slingerland set up, still wraped in boxes?Clapping Happy2

Posted on 15 years ago
#15
Posts: 2212 Threads: 95
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From Jazzbird

Hi Lucky, They show a 24". You could contact them if you need a larger size. They also have some reviews on their site. I'd like to try them myself. Good Luck.:D

I meant the diameter being just a little oversized. I have a solid shell snare and heads fit tight,real tight.

Posted on 15 years ago
#16
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Hello again Dave!...

1968 Slingerland BR #80N NEW in the box??!! Hmmm... that does quicken the pulse a bit, but no... however! ... I do have a Slingerland "custom" Buddy Rich #80N that is currently my practice set in the house. There are a couple ways to have a look at this special set: In the "Vintage Drum Gallery", go to page #7... scroll down till you find it! There is also some text explaining how this particular set came to be... then, I just banged off a pic today that I will attach to this post, so you can have a look that way too! :-D I had to bring this set out at least once to play LIVE, so I did... but after that, it was relegated to the drum room and makes a great practice set! Speaking of Slingerland and 1968:

I do have in my Buddy Rich snare drum collection, a near mint 1968 Slingerland Buddy Rich Artist solid shell in WMP... does that count?! :-D I have to tell you that I have collected ALL the snare drums Buddy played between 1949 and 1979, and every drum is correct as to model/hardware/wrap. These are the MAIN snare drums he played, meaning the one's that are most often seen in pics/film/video, and the models that he actually LIKED... well, for a bit anyway. Buddy was always searching for the PERFECT snare drum... and he found it a few times too, only to decide that no, he hadn't! :-D

Tommyp

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Posted on 15 years ago
#17
Posts: 2212 Threads: 95
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Tommy,

How do you keep your drum room so clean??? That kit looks awesome! I seem to remember reading an article, an interview with Buddy and he was slamin on Slingerland snares.

Posted on 15 years ago
#18
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OH MAN!!! No Way!DOH

Posted on 15 years ago
#19
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Lucky!...

Thanks for the nice comments... and I guess I'll have to address the "how do you keep your drum room so clean too! So... My drum room is actually a dedicated room for drums/snares/practice/rehearsal/recordings... thus it is bigger than what you see in that pic, but because it's a dedicated room, it's pretty easy to keep it neat as my wife and the two girls don't really go in there! As a matter of fact, she named the room: "Tommyland"... good grief. :-D Also, I tend to think that a lot of drummers are perfectionists, maybe a "tad" obsessive... perhaps even anal... retentive that is! Factor all that in and the result is a neat drum room!... well, at least for me anyway. :-D Now, regarding the Buddy question about him slammin' on Slingerland snares:

I've amassed quite a collection over the past 42 years! on Buddy Rich... everything conceivable from recording... drums... media of ALL types... seeing him LIVE... and meeting him once, and talking to a lot of people that worked with him musically, for him, or even that knew him. So that said: Buddy actually DID like some of the Slingerland snares, although in print and publically he pretty much knocked everything. It was just part of his persona... make no mistake though, he was very concerned with how everything sounded... especially his snare drum. He started with the 1968 Slingerland Artist... renamed the "Buddy Rich Artist", but by 1968/1969, he wanted something different. Enter the Slingerland 4X14 Buddy Rich model snare drum, which he really liked too... for a while. It's said that he had a hand in the design of that drum, but what I have found out over time was that it was more of a suggestion... still, he played it for a couple of years, which for Buddy, was like an eternity! That drum was available in two models: WMP... and COW... ( chrome over wood ) ... Buddy much preferred the COW as he is seen playing that drum much more than the WMP model. I have them both and have to agree. The COW has a bit more "presence" to it, although the shells are the same. It must have a bit to do with the actual chrome, not plastic, wrap. Right after this model is where it all falls apart for Buddy/Slingerland: BR goes back to his Fibes SFT 690 COF, and plays it in PLAIN SIGHT even though he was PAID to endorse Slingerland at the time. Don Osborne Sr., who owned Slingerland, freaked... he was quite upset that Buddy would "do that to Slingerland, after all we have done for you"... Buddy said, build me a drum that plays and sounds like this, and I'll play it. This may be where you read about BR publically slammin' Slingerland... anyway... Slingerland delivered what became the "Buddy Rich Snare Drum w/TDR 100 strainer". 10 lug... 5 plies no rings... StickChopper hoops... and three air vents. Buddy loved it!... and played it... for a while... but then he went BACK to the Fibes SFT 690 COF!... but did alternate between the two for the rest of his endorsement with Slingerland, although he without a doubt played the Fibes "almost" exclusively from 1973 up to leaving Slingerland in 1976. During this period there was much venom spewed on the "quality" of Slingerland snare drums... but BR did like some of them, regardless of what he said publically.

Sorry 'bout the length of this... but you did ask!! :-D

Tommyp

Posted on 15 years ago
#20
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