I first learned of Tosco in 1982 from the great "avant-garde' jazz drummer, John Betch, who has been living for many years in Paris. He was a Tosco endorser at that time ('82)
Toscos were of a level of quality equal to A Zildjians until Sabian cheapened and destroyed the name in the 80s.
I believe they were roto-cast in their heyday.
My pre-Sabian 20", 2041 gram ride:
I first learned of Tosco in 1982 from the great "avant-garde' jazz drummer, John Betch, who has been living for many years in Paris. He was a Tosco endorser at that time ('82)Toscos were of a level of quality equal to A Zildjians until Sabian cheapened and destroyed the name in the 80s.I believe they were roto-cast in their heyday.My pre-Sabian 20", 2041 gram ride:
That's a beautiful one. Are there any particular features you see in those photos which suggest roto-casting to you (vs casting in a cymbal shaped mold without the spinning?). I ask because I'm trying to get a feel for what telltale signs people believe roto-casting is leaving on cymbals.
That's a beautiful one. Are there any particular features you see in those photos which suggest roto-casting to you (vs casting in a cymbal shaped mold without the spinning?). I ask because I'm trying to get a feel for what telltale signs people believe roto-casting is leaving on cymbals.
Zenstat, I'm aware of conflicting historical comment vis-a-vis Tosco and roto-casting.
This is the best evidence I can come up with. What do you think?
That's great. Thanks. Good photos showing the "under the bell radial lines from center to edge with curvature" telltale sign (for lack of a better name).
Here's 2 more pics of the High Hats to view and they sure look like they were roto-cast. The extra looking ring/lip in the center of the cymbal is the "other cymbal" as both were together during the pictures.
Thanks again!
That's great. Thanks. Good photos showing the "under the bell radial lines from center to edge with curvature" telltale sign (for lack of a better name).
Cool. I know that you and I were discussing this in a different thread. Also notice the radial lines from the bell outward on the top pics. Unless the bell was heavily lathed, you may even feel the ripples on the topside of the bell, kind of like on that vintage splash that I had. Not necessarily drip, like on the Bionic or Natural rides, but definitely some markings in metal that appear to be moving out towards the edge of the pie.
The plot thickens.
Sound update on the High Hats!Guitar Dude Man
OK, I was able to use these on a recent jam with some cool musicians and my perceptions have changed on describing the sound. These are definitely brighter with more volume overall in musical tones compared to my 15" early 60s New Beats. My first initial test left my ears thinking something else???
However, actually getting out and playing live with them cleared that up fast! These are very unique sounding!!! As I said before, they sort of remind me of a very nice set of early 70s 14" New Beats that I wish I still had and never sold. I still can't fully describe the sound...very musical, lots of cool tones with wash, excellent clear chick sound opened & closed keeping time, slightly higher pitched driving a song with a heavy stick on edge. I'm going to try to record a sound file to post so everyone can hear!!! These cymbals just really have their own very unique & beautiful sound to them!!! Thanks againband3
Cool. I know that you and I were discussing this in a different thread. Also notice the radial lines from the bell outward on the top pics. Unless the bell was heavily lathed, you may even feel the ripples on the topside of the bell, kind of like on that vintage splash that I had. Not necessarily drip, like on the Bionic or Natural rides, but definitely some markings in metal that appear to be moving out towards the edge of the pie.The plot thickens.
I think this might be the kind of look you are describing. A pyramid stamp UFiP 20" which doesn't have much obvious hammering, but is covered in those metal "runs" which look like they were formed in the mold as the metal was cooling. In some of the 3 photos you might think they were lathe chatter but they certainly don't look like that in person.
[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2013/UFiP1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2013/UFiP2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2013/UFiP3.jpg[/img]
And on a very different looking (older?) 20" UFiP we have much hammering visible, but still that telltale on the bell.
[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2012/ufip5.jpg[/img]
The bell on this one (I've got two of them actually) is very steep sided and totally unlike the gradual one of the shiny 20".
[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2012/ufip6.jpg[/img]
The steep sided bell with thick bell to bow transition is something I'd only expect to be able to get on an Italian cast cymbal. Starting from a flat blank it would be very hard to do without leaving the transition area too thin. And for Turkish style cymbals where a press is used to put the bell in, they just don't have straight sides. Maybe a few Chinas have bells with sides this abrupt, but I don't have any to examine them closely.
Sound update on the High Hats!Guitar Dude ManOK, I was able to use these on a recent jam with some cool musicians and my perceptions have changed on describing the sound. These are definitely brighter with more volume overall in musical tones compared to my 15" early 60s New Beats. My first initial test left my ears thinking something else???However, actually getting out and playing live with them cleared that up fast! These are very unique sounding!!! As I said before, they sort of remind me of a very nice set of early 70s 14" New Beats that I wish I still had and never sold. I still can't fully describe the sound...very musical, lots of cool tones with wash, excellent clear chick sound opened & closed keeping time, slightly higher pitched driving a song with a heavy stick on edge. I'm going to try to record a sound file to post so everyone can hear!!! These cymbals just really have their own very unique & beautiful sound to them!!! Thanks againband3
And back to the current topic of High Hats.
I'm not surprised that they sound so pleasing. Following on from the thicker bell bridge transition (and generally thicker bell) this Italian style of cast cymbal is capable of putting out more bright sound because lots of energy passes to that bell. I've found that my UFiP 14" High Hats (which weigh only 750g and 800g) are more pleasing to me than other New Beat (or just light top and bottom) A Zildjians I've used.
The UFiPs have a brightness and sizzle which is just great. So much so that I've recently sold my Armand hats and am considering selling my 50s Zildjian hats as well. My UFiPs don't have as much chick as New Beats because they are close to equal weights. Sonically they are all about recreating the 1950s A Zildjian hats sound (which was similarly weighted top and bottom). But I've tried the top UFiP over a 1960s A Zildjian bottom at 1120g and that gets you the New Beat style chick if you want it.
Zanki Rotocasts are extremely nice cymbals as well:
[img]http://www.gratisimage.dk/thumb-8917_4FE782AF.jpg[/img]
Click for large version.
Jon
